High Percent Returns and Winners

Discussion in 'Trading' started by MichaelNorris, Apr 4, 2001.

  1. There have been some discussions on a couple of other threads about web sites with high percent returns and winners that I thought I would group together here with a some new additional information. Please input any information you have about any these sites.

    On one thread there was a discussion about http://www.Chartpattern.com because of the 164,000% return that was generated by the person of that site in 3 years prior to the current bear market we are in, which lead to a discussion about some other sites (since Chartpattern.com was not doing well through this bear market) that others felt were doing well with a high percentage of winners with high monthly returns such as http://www.millennium-traders.com and http://www.trendfund.com . Rockthelurker said that instead of trying squeeze every penny out these trades, his objective was to get 1/2 point out of the trade, and that with his research so far (which is not done yet) that those two sites were averaging a 96% success rate of being able to get a 1/2 point out of the trades. All three of above mentioned sites provide education as well as make specific trade calls.

    Another thread pointed out another site with a very high win ratio with high returns that looks to be very excellent called http://www.tradingtheopen.com for intraday trading during the first couple of hours the market is open. Their trade call performance results they have listed on their site is incredible as well the education they appear to provide.
    They provide entry price, stops, and profit target exit.

    Another site I came across seems to be doing very well called http://www.SimplerTrading.com . This site is a swingtrading site holding positions for several days and has been doing an incredibly high percent return despite the bear market we are in, which is remarkable because most swing traders have been forced to go to trading intraday to be profitable and closing positions out by the end of the day in this environment. They averaged a 44% monthly return for year 2000 and they generated a 30.38% return in January and a 17.89% return in February. Their March results will be up soon and I was told by them that it would about a 12% return for March. Their site is great for people who are not able to watch the market intraday, because they provide their picks with education the evening before so you can put in buy stop orders for the trades. They provide entry price, stops, and profit target exit.

    These sites seem to be great sites to earn while you learn.
    The question is which sites provide the best service, education and potential to make money?

    Anyone familiar with any of these sites and if so how have you been doing with them return wise from trading their calls, and are you learning how to actually trade, if so how is the education you are receiving with them?
  2. Here's some info from the other thread about the http://www.tradingtheopen.com web site from various people who posted responses:

    Junior Member

    As others have observed, there's a lot of nonsense out there, and I've investigated a decent share of it. I
    do have some specific recommendations.

    1. There's one chatroom that blows all the others out of the water, imho. It's moderated by Ken Calhoun, the same fellow who has been posting on this thread. It is distinguished from the others in that a) there is constant teaching of superb quality (Socratic method); b) the approach is highly systematic, and all details of the system are disclosed; c) there is no bs allowed in the room, yet the atmosphere is, to me anyway,highly enjoyable; and d) the precision and performance of the real time calls are unreal.

    Note to Robert (posting here as rtharp): using a random sample of 84 sequential trades and pessimistic
    assumptions about stops, the system expectancy calculated as average R-multiple over these trades is 1.5 with 10-20 daily trades. Ken advocates stops of 1/8-1/4, and I assumed fills at -3/8 to make some allowance for slippage, which will depend on order routing skill. With 1/4 or 1/8 stops, which Ken says is the norm for him, the expectancy figure is way better of course.)
    The online course (dtu)is also excellent, though still in progress/under revision.

    2. There is no room that deals with trading psychology or mentality, a topic brought up by one of the other
    posters in passing. Robert's dad is one expert in this area Mark Douglas is another.

    3. Avoid eGoose, guys named Ollie, mtrader, and others who advise risking 2 points to chase one point, try for 1 point on stocks trading at $198 (well ok, not many of those left), and generally charge more for less.
    Just my opinion, of course. 04-03-2001 05:22 PM

    Junior Member

    Many thanks re kudos on the room... agree also w/earlier post re some are good some are bs for trading education.

    Not all trading methods are suitable for all traders. Some sites still recommend swing trading (if you can believe it!) in this market. It's good advice to try out a lot of what's out there, you will be able to smell the bs from many sources, the 'gems of truth' in others.

    For authentic training, I like Barry Rudd
    ( http://www.sceptretrading.com ), Tony Oz
    ( http://www.stockjunkie.com ) and Tim Bourquin
    ( http://www.traderinterviews.com ) Also, the free fibcalc
    program http://www.parttimetrader.com and http://www.quotetracker.com (for news mgmt) and steve
    nison for candlesticks (forgot his url).

    I dislike the site that recommends in their "play of the week", for example, short CCL with a 1 point stop loss
    and just a 1-2 point profit target on a swing trade, as having a 1 point stop and a 1-2 point gain is poor

    My personal style is, buy 2-day high breakouts, short 2-day low breakdowns, trade stocks w/over 1.2mil shares/day volume and at least %5 intraday volatility (eg 2 points on a $40 stock). And, I advocate stops of no greater than 2-3 spreads, looking for profits of +1/2 to + 1 1/4 or so.

    Careful, precision trading is required in this market. (not scalping, not loose swing trading)

    Anyways, best wishes to all. I think daytrading is much safer than investing, we nail winners and keep small
    stops. No hoping, only careful level2/sector charts and 1-min candlestick chart based daytrading for me!


    Comparisons of call performance ignore the most important potential value of such sites, which is education.
    As Robert Tharp will tell you, a competent mentor is an enormous edge, and he'd never dream of trading without one. At TTO, there's constant teaching and interaction, other sites I've checked have guru-style
    'buy this now' approaches where the operators never explain the trade and seldom if ever answer questions
    about them. The tto site focuses on a systematic trading style that can be modeled fairly easily by many,
    and as mentioned previously, it's fully disclosed and reinforced on an ongoing basis.

    That said, it's definitely the case that one problem with any 'performance record' is that all the calls are
    hypothetical. They do not reflect difficulties encountered with execution (human error, isp failure, insufficient liquidity, etc), limitations to be encountered in buying power, as could occur if many trades are made simultaneously, and so on. I agree that such records would be more useful if somebody were taking all these trades in real time so that actual fills, both gains and losses, could be calculated directly. To my knowledge, no room does this. Nevertheless, Mr. Calhoun teaches taking defined maximum stops manually, trading share sizes small enough to match ISLD orders or SOES mm's directly. My calculations for
    expectancy assumed all losses hit the maximum stop, but, as indicated, no slippage, since as a first pass it's
    appropriate to address the system, not the skill in execution. Moreover, I've had the opportunity to watch
    as these calls are made in real time, and compare the instruction to what's available in the popular press
    nd other web sites. By profession I'm a scientist. I look at raw data, evaluate its quality, and make simplest
    case inferences for a living. In this case, comparisons can be quantitative, and should be. Do a trial, track
    the trades for yourself, run the numbers, and report back.
    04-04-2001 04:36 PM


    Registered: May 1999
    Posts: 49
    I have to agree about Ken, I have been on his chat for just three days and have already learned more than any other place. He goes to great lengths (IMO) to explain what he's doing. I have absolutely no doubdt that I will learn to be an excellent daytrader in down markets as well as up markets: assuming he will continue to teach us for a few more months. I too am a retired scientist and as far as I'm concerned---Ken Calhoun is a very good trader and TEACHER FOR US NEWBIES. I personally hope others will ignore him---and I'll have less competition in the near future.
    Gene Bortmes
    04-04-2001 05:19 PM

    Junior Member

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 12
    Brooks, as I said to you in my emails, any stops we take on any live trade calls are by definition -3/8 or less.
    Well over 70% of my alerts consistently yield at least +1/2 to +1 1/4 points profits, as any of the hundreds
    of people who've been in my room can attest.

    I am someone who takes trader education and training seriously, and work hard to make sure my traders are
    well-prepared to trade, by doing technical analysis, chart pattern trading and conservative, close risk management.

    I could certainly waste my time going through and calculate "ok we stopped out -.2 on AMAT", "stopped even on KLAC" type of thing, I would rather take that time to work on answering trader emails and developing new content for DTU.

    Even Tony Oz says "I love the site" about DTU, and I have well over 2,200 satisfied traders as customers worldwide.

    Please listen to all the trader interviews at Tim Bourquin's excellent http://www.traderinterviews.com site ,
    including mine, and decide for yourself. I am very proud of all the hard work I've put into my site, my services, my track record, and our team accomplishments for traders around the world at DTU.

    Ken Calhoun

    Junior Member

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 12
    Oh, and thanks Malcolm, Gene, for the kind words - appreciate it.

    Generally, people's reputation is built by word of mouth, which I think is great.

    Look further down the page too at the notes I have on performance at other sites, eg many amateur sites
    trade stocks like cien/jnpr, and take large stops. I would rather trade semis, biotechs and others with much
    better risk:reward ratios and use very small stops for our traders.

    My performance record is correct, and I stand behind it. Simply go through any of the transcripts and compare the alerts and live trade calls with your charts (I like esignal.com), and you will see that they all verify out to within 1/16 point on all alerts correctly. I need to make sure that everything is documented accurately, which it is.

    In fact, I've even offered free time in the room to anyone who wants to take the time to generate the performance record for me, as it is time-consuming, detailed work. So I even offer to have my traders generate the performance log.
    My "books", my calls, are wide open to having people audit them, check them out yourself etc, that's fine with me. I'm open and honest in how I run my business, and my personal life. Life is short - I believe in doing things right.

    The fact is, I work hard to be an effective trainer and trader.

  3. Here's some info from another thread about http://www.Millennim-Traders.com and http://www.trendfund.com

    Junior Member

    Registered: Jan 2001
    Posts: 25


    First, Let me say "I DON'T LIKE TO LOSE"...no, I H~A~T~E TO LOSE!!!So I try to cover my B.F.A$$....

    It's all a numbers game (%)....and the answer is make more trades InTheMoney. I try for 90%+!!!

    Don't take the site (any site) as always 100% right....THEY NEVER ARE!!!

    You have to be comfortable with whoever YOU use.

    Hence, my DD....at least 3-6 months of following their trades...(all their trades)

    In 1998 I joined a site that had REALlive trades ....when they bought a bell would go off on the puter
    ...same for when they sold...so I knew when to buy and sell.
    2000+210%YTD thru March.....and then they shut down....needless to say, I was very upset!!!

    It's taken almost a year to "just find" a site that has the success of my old site.

    I am still doing DD on both the sites we are talking about so I am NOT making the trades with them YET!....

    No site can ever call the bottom or the top of a trade....so YOU have to do it...They call the trade(stock)
    and YOU have to make it....Know your limitations!!! Don't be a PIG...I would rather make a fast nickel then a
    slow dime...

    Get a streaming quote system so you can see the flow...and YOU don't have to sell "only" when they do. If
    you feel good about making only 50 cents a share...punch out at that profit...NumbersGame:

    Say you do 20 round trips a day, on trades of 50 shares a trade, making a profit of 50 cents a share...

    .50 x 50 shares = $25.00 x 20 round trips = $500.00 a day x

    250 days = $125,000.00 a year...NotBad!!!

    Just think, when you have the money to do 75~100~200 shares a trade....well, YOU can see the math!!!!

    I think that just about covers it, but if YOU have more questions....FEEL FREE TO ASK...

    ....as always,

    GoodInvesting, Rocky



    Your question is about the same as the one you posted on 2/25/01.....and my answer is the same as on my
    post 2/26/01...

    Let me try to make this simple:

    Site calls for a BUY long on XYZ co. @ 25.00

    I BUY @25.06

    I watch the flow...

    I SELL @25.56...

    Site calls to SELL at @26.06

    XYZ goes to 27.06

    I made 50 cents per share...
    Site made 1 buck per share...
    Site can claim YOU "COULD" HAVE MADE 2 bucks per share...

    SoFar both sites are batting at 94%+ profitable trades...

    I LIKE THAT!!!

    ....as always,

    GoodInvesting, Rocky

    03-17-2001 08:48 AM
    Edit • Quote

    Junior Member

    Registered: Jan 2001
    Posts: 25

    Both sites are still killing the market (long&short)...

    Now about 96% profitable trades...

    Watch Bulls&Bears on FOX to see Waxie of TheTrendFund...

    ....as always,

    GoodInvesting, Rocky

    03-24-2001 07:58 AM
    Edit • Quote


    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 30

    Do you observe these sites to learn how to pick these calls yourself?

    That would be my purpose of following a chat room. To learn consistancy on new strategies. How do you
    think Tiny picks his Focus lists? I would think it is the same as trying to pick a reversal pattern, and having
    trigger points in place for either direction the price action takes off. I'm am thinking of swing positions, but
    his triggers are to take an intra-day swing. In your case, 50 cents.

    Personally, I have observed this site for a trial period. I would like to put my own Focus list together, and
    give it a try. This will take up the boring times that I experience waiting for much better(point swing)

    I don't use L2, and with this trigger system, it should be no problem grabbing 50 cents.

    To follow up with my first question, If you have a known scanning method to identify this "Focus list"
    stategy, or an idea how tiny's list is acquired, will you let me now?

    03-25-2001 11:01 PM
    Edit • Quote


    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 30
    Also, I wanted to point out that Millinium Traders have a 3pt stop loss on everything they call, yet most of
    their calls turn positive.

    Its hard for me to ever hold if a stock goes 50 cents in the wrong direction. These calls have made 12pts
    plus all last week. This is without legging in or out of a position.

    Out of 15 calls they may get 1 or 2 losses. With their calculations.

    Is this 3pt. stop loss a somewhat standard practice for daytraders?(Not scalpers)

    03-25-2001 11:30 PM
    Edit • Quote

    Senior Member

    Registered: Nov 2000
    Posts: 152

    when I daytrade breakouts. I use a one point stop loss with a dayhold stop and than trail my stop
    throughout the day when it turns positive. My risk is adjusted by buying less shares

    Risk per trade = (Entry price-minus stop price )* # of shares.

    IF they use a 3 point loss than hopefully they are adjusting risk by having even fewer shares

    03-26-2001 02:35 AM
    Edit • Quote


    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 30
    Thanks Rtharp:

    They play reversals mostly, not breakouts.

    I use a combination of trend lines, and a variace of fib retracement percentages based on actual price
    points; Basically determining if the price action is due for a reversal. I recognize how far the price action has
    run, and how fast. In addition when playing NASDAQ stocks, I also pay attetion to the NDX cash, in
    particular, along with the OEX to follow reversals of these averages with the same reversal identification
    criteria. When these match I feel I have the odds in my favor.

    The problem I had with this a chat room is that I feel that these guys know more than I do leading me to
    break from my individualism to follow(Not that I know more, but that psychological feelings take over). Then
    when the price action does not go in the direction expected, I get a panic feeling wanting them to hold my
    hand. Ex: Normally, I would short a stock, and stop out if it moves 40 to 50 cents in the opposite direction,
    and short again at a higher price level. When following someone elses call I give more room. The price action
    moves quickly one dollar, and more, where I take a loss right where I should be getting back in if I had
    followed my own strategy.

    Maybe when, or even if, I get L2 then I will be able to see how they make their calls.

    I noticed calls(breakouts) that didn't that I couldn't understand, and that would be where I could, or would
    not follow blindly, even if trying for only 50 cents.

    I think that going after 50 cents is good, but for me at this point-without L2, is to small(to much work;

    Thanks for pointing out Tony Oz's book. I will be ordering it shortly. Do you have a comparison to his latest


    03-26-2001 07:31 AM

    All times are ET (US)
  4. Vienna


    did you do some due diligence on simplertrading.com? Meaning, did you check them out? Are they for real?
  5. Vienna

    Just started their free two week trial today with http://www.SimplerTrading.com , so I don't know anything more about how their calls perform other than what they have posted on their site under their track record which lists every trade with the results dating back to January 2000. Hopefully some other people who visit this message board will have used their service and will have something more to report.
  6. Knyyt


    How did your trial work out with simpler trading website?

  7. I agree with Ken and the others that have posted here with regards to profitable stock calls. I liken call performance records with a "p**ssing in the wind" contest.

    It's a simple process. Most sites offer a free trial. If the trader finds the service fits their personal style and is helpful, they stay. If they find it doesn't fit their style, they leave. Many use this stock call "performance" as an excuse to focus negative energy.

    The focus on our site, like DTU, is not on what calls make the most money, but rather how to teach the trader what to look for and how to manage the trade. Once that is learned, the money will follow for a job well done. I personally could care less if our traders do the opposite of our calls, as long as they're following an established profitable plan and are doing what is personally right for them.



    04-04-2001 11:22 PM Edit • Quote
    Junior Member

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 9 Sounds like everyone agrees that these sites should take down their performance records. They don't seem to clearly say whether they are actual or theoretical trades. If claiming to be actual, then the poster should be willing to provide copies of account statements on request.

    These performance records appear identical to extravagent claims in trading magazine advertisements.

    04-05-2001 02:21 PM Edit • Quote
    Junior Member

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 23 I agree that the performance records are minimally useful. I do one only because "everyone else does" and it is the most-visited page on my site.

    That's one reason why I also include several months worth of downloadable transcripts - to see how I sound, how I teach, what you can learn, what the training style and level of specific how-to information I share is, and Please compare with anyone else out there.

    I believe that people who sign up for a chat room should be there primarily to Learn How to Trade for themselves, vs jumping on a "buy it now" type alert, which is unfortunately what the majority of rooms do.

    No rationale or reason is given by many chat room ops (other than "it's running, futures uptick noodles pop let's all go buy cien" type of amateur approaches).

    I agree that everyone should try out all the rooms for themselves, and go with an approach and a trader who they feel comfortable learning from, who will actually teach them. "momentum gambling' type of rooms are dangerous, risky places in my opinion.

    That's why my primary focus is on realtime training: how to use the COMPQ, TRINQ , sector charts and stock charts correctly, how to route your orders, how to spot the right chart patterns etc. The live trade calls are there to illustrate the performance of the techniques I use.

    To my knowledge, I am the only person running a live training and trading room that, for example, shows traders the actual pro monitor setup I'm using:
    http://www.Daytrading-University.com/6mon.gif and even provide the source esignal files in 3- 4- and 5-monitor versions for any traders that want them, to use themselves.

    I'm also the only person who wants traders to only stay 3-6 months max before moving on yourself. A good trading room should have as its PRIMARY GOAL to TRAIN TRADERS how to do this Independently without handholding. Many of these chat room types are bs'ers who want traders to stay there forever, paying monthly fees, vs being there to learn, then move on and trade on their own. As a teacher, I am not successful unless people learn from me, then can stand on their own two feet and trade on their own.

    Ask others, "what's your entry criteria?" "why exit here?", and "can I see the monitor screencap of your personal rig?" and see what kind of answers you get. The credibility of whoever's running the room, is your responses.

    Also, listen to guys like Tony Oz, Barry Rudd, Mark Seleznov, others who are professional traders and can genuinely help as well.

    Hope that helps,


    Yes - re seminars at $3,000+ per person, that's way too expensive in my opinion. Do the math on those, eg a company with 80 people in a $3K/person seminar comes out to a quarter million per session for the seminar givers.

    One well-known company does the old "free informational seminars" routine, loads the audience with a few shills to sound excited, then get others to pay $3K or more for "mentoring" and other seminars and "boot camps" that are a ripoff.

    Overall, I think the trader training business is 95% bs. I'm working hard to be in the "right 5%", eg no bs here, mostly good resources.

    Conversion to renewals? Maybe 60% or so, which is decent considering the market. Also, I extend people's time with us considerably, so most 6 month memberships end up being 8 month or 10 month memberships, as a complimentary service. My total income from DTU/TTO (including videos etc) barely breaks 6 figs, which is not a lot given the workload I put into these sites, answering trader questions, one-on-one teaching etc.

    I've never worked so hard in my life, but I enjoy it, as I get to help a lot of people around the world, vs trading by myself in isolation here in Hawaii, or working for a boss in a corporate environment.

    Good advice is: check references, ask around, and find trading resources that are genuine and helpful to Your style.


  8. If anyone is using Trendfund for chat, alerts and education, I would like to hear from them. I have sent them e-mail, but don't receive any info back. I'm curious about his calls, education etc.Thanks, genebort@home.com
    Gene Bortmes

    04-06-2001 02:37 PM Edit • Quote
    Junior Member

    Registered: Jan 2001
    Posts: 5 I am not sure how advanced is your trading and how much knowledge you have. I was a trial member for 2 weeks. Education is very basic: Fibs, ADX.. I sometimes felt like people trading there have never heard names like Fibonacci Retracements, time of day trading, test/retest, etc.

    Based on 2weeks, I would say education is minimal. You are ENCOURAGED to pay 3k for a trading seminar in California or buy tapes.

    As to calls - some good some not so good - like trading. Overall, there is no magic bullet. If you new to trading, it may be worth it as you may save you some capital, if you know what you are doing - save $400/mo

    My opinion is that you should try to master your own trading approach. Rooms will not make you successful trader, but they will make you dependent.

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."

    My 2c


    04-06-2001 10:50 PM Edit • Quote

    Registered: Jun 1999
    Posts: 342 PKJR

    I get Waxie's free email alerts. From the sound of it, almost every trade is a big winner. Does he have a bunch of losers that he never comments on? If this is the case, it would seem to me that his regular subscribers would get tired of him bragging all the time when he's not all that great. I mean, if you were in a mediocre chat room, and the guy was constantly bragging about how good he is, wouldn't that cause you to leave? I would. I wouldn't even stay past the trial. Then again, maybe he has a lot of subscriber turnover; who knows?

    Then again, let's say that he's not nearly as good as he claims. Maybe by constantly reinforcing in people's minds the idea that he's such a guru, they believe it even without trading results.

    Anyway, that's what I'm trying to reconcile. The idea that maybe he's not such a great trader, and the idea that he constantly is bragging on himself. They just don't seem compatible, for someone who wishes to keep subscribers.

    Before any Waxie fans jump down my throat, I didn't say Waxie's not a good trader; he may very well be as good as he claims. Just trying to solve a dilemma.

    04-07-2001 12:07 AM Edit • Quote
    Senior Member

    Registered: May 1999
    Posts: 152 I subsribed to Trendfund for a month to check it out. Waxie really was making a ton of money at the time. He had a $500k day once. I didn't follow any of his trades because they didn't fit my style, but it was fun to watch.

    04-07-2001 12:41 AM Edit • Quote

    Registered: Jun 1999
    Posts: 342 Dustin

    Was he making all that money because he was heavily short the market, or was he making bucks on daytrades also?

  9. mjt,

    I think it was a day that he was heavily short the market using options. Not really daytrades...

    04-07-2001 05:50 PM Edit • Quote
    Senior Member

    Registered: May 1999
    Posts: 673 Tried it for a couple months out of curiosity to see if there was any special value (especially at those prices) or at least if there were some new ideas. Found neither.

    I agree with a previous poster - if you're looking for education, this isn't the place. Also, trade management is so critical to successful trading, that just making calls is almost irrelevant.

    Often I would see a call and then the trade could be a winner or a loser depending on how you managed it - but they didn't publish any trade managment info. Also seemed like every call was published only after he'd executed his trade - often at a price you couldn't then match. You'd also find out he had done profit taking or was out of a trade only after he was closed and again often at a price you couldn't touch.

    The approach seemed to be primarily to toss out a call and then it was the trader's responsibility to figure out when to take profits, how to track stops, when to exit, etc. So basically you're paying $400/month for some trade candidates. Personally, that seemed useless for the less experienced traders who need help with trade management and of little or no value for experienced traders who already have no trouble identifying potential trade candidates.

    To each their own, but you should consider whether there are more valuable and productive ways to use that cash. For example, for $400/month you could sign up for several different trading services and educational programs and get different slants/approaches to the market. And you won't have to put up with the continual and incredibly annoying "hehe...who's your daddy" crap either.

    Hey, maybe he's really a great and successful trader and no doubt making tons more than anyone here, but that alone doesn't make for a valuable trading service anymore than winning the Noble Prize for the option pricing model guarantees you're a brilliant hedge fund manager.

    And my gosh, with all the money this guy's supposedly making, can't he hire someone to teach him English or does he just think he sounds cool doing a bad Ice T impersonation?

    In the end, it's what works best for you (and what you're willing to put up with).

    04-08-2001 01:33 PM Edit • Quote
    Junior Member

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 23 Try http://www.tradingtheopen.com

    Trade mgmt is critical, eg where to trail stops, why and when to enter etc.. If he makes 500K/day why does he run a pay chat room? lol


    04-08-2001 09:51 PM Edit • Quote
    Senior Member

    Registered: May 1999
    Posts: 152 I agree with both of the last posts. Waxie can be extremely annoying, and in the end it's what partially drove me away. As for why he ran a chat room, I honestly think he really enjoys it.

    Ken, at the time some guy challenged Waxie to prove that he really was making all this money, and if he proved it the guy would give him World Series tix. Waxie provided his daily trade P&L for all of his members and his claims were supported. The guy ended up backing out of the deal.

    04-08-2001 10:14 PM Edit • Quote

    Registered: Mar 2001
    Posts: 33 I have also given Waxie's site a try.

    During that week trial, on March 2, 2000 I'm pretty sure, Waxie had intered the chat room and called CIEN for a short. Apparently, a member questioned the price action because it had moved in the wrong direction the next day. Waxie posted a message stating that it is the traders responsibility to execute his trades, and manage. This is also stated in the introductory page. He then went on to say that his stop was above 74. (5, or 6 pt, stop) It sounded as if he was pushed into saying where his stop was.

    Anyway, in the following days the price action continued up into a gap up to 78. Then the price action came down to close at 53.31, on 12 Mar 01. He reported, WOWSA!!!, I made 500,000 as best as I can tellllll!! Ka-chingo!
    CIEN was on his list making 13 pts that day. But I was left wondering how he managed that one. Did he get stopped out above 74 liked he said he would? Did he get back in? And when? Evidently, he did. But he doesn't share that with any of his paid($400/month) members.

    Another time only within a week ago, someone asked him how much he has made. He said 1.5 million in one account which started with 1.5 million. 100%!! I wonder, How many accounts does he have? In the account he mentioned, is that a high risk account? What percentage of the total trading portfolio is that one account? Was margin used while trading this account?

    Last, Thursday the 5th of April, five stocks were called at the open to Fad the gap. Four of them went the wrong direction. One was ok. After hours Waxie reported the four as being covered flat.(I wonder how many points are allowed for "margin of error" in his definition of Flat.)

    Anyway, there is a market for this chat room along with others(just as there are markets for used car lots with lemons), but I feel very comfortable with this site as there are individual successful traders who willingly share their knowledge to help other traders. There are a few chat rooms that do emphasize how, and why?(Educate) I feel that if your not understanding how, and why, you enter and exit a trade, you've got yourself a lemon.(Mostly)


    04-09-2001 12:37 AM Edit • Quote

    Registered: Jun 1999
    Posts: 342 I'm curious, has anyone been following Waxie for a really long time (like a year or so)? I've been getting his emails for about 6 months, and he's been on the money about the market the whole time. Doesn't mean he's a guru necessarily; there are people from time to time who seem to be able to call the market with uncanny accuracy. Anyway, he said in a recent email that he called the Nasdaq all the way up to 5000 prior to last March, before he started calling it down to 2000 and lower. I'm just wondering if anyone can verify this.

  10. TheFinn

    Registered: Aug 2000
    Posts: 35 I took a look at the http://www.TradingTheOpen.com site. It looks almost too good to be true. It the most expensive I've seen, though ($495) a month. I was wondering if anyone has signed up with them? How are you doing? What kinds of problems do you have? Their site did some serious dissing of other chat-room sights (by name, no less)- which I thought was kind of unprofessional.

    The Finn

    04-09-2001 08:11 AM Edit • Quote

    Registered: Aug 1999
    Posts: 336 I haven't used them, but I personally don't think much of these high priced, hand-holding outfits that basically tell you what stocks to trade and how to trade them. As far as their claim about helping you learn how to read charts and analysis, you certainly don't need to pay $495 per month to learn something that you can learn for free with a little time and information online. Nonetheless, to each his own I suppose

    #10     Apr 11, 2001