Hidden Orders

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by bcavender, Nov 20, 2003.

  1. Can anyone here pass along their experiences using Hidden Orders entered through Island ECN or Iceberg Orders entered via Smart Order Routing?

    Interactive Brokers says that the market cannot see 'Hidden' orders and it is also not shown in Island's Deep Book...

    I guess I am curious if Island or others somehow still uses that info for self benefit and conversly to my detriment?

    Any comments?

  2. rtrading


    a year ago, we contacted island, and their CEO assured us that no one can see hidden orders.

    Of course, the developer of island is being pursued by the SEC for his involvement in the Heartland, Mashler case.

    The truth is....you'll never really know.
  3. I wish I had a way to queue exit points without having to let them be seen. I have heard that Tradestation and others can do this, but if your data link goes down/computer locks and you are not Johnny on the spot....you are in a world of hurt if the market is moving fast.

    Sounds like its time just to do some smaller trades to determine what the real world actually amount to.
  4. are possible in futures markets ...

    not sure about spot / cash markets

    like fx / gold /
  5. Hi Bruce,

    "Can anyone here pass along their experiences using Hidden Orders entered through Island ECN or Iceberg Orders entered via Smart Order Routing?"

    I started a thread on Hidden Orders a short while back you might want to take a look


    I've tried using them to capture spreads or to arb one ECN against another in pre and post market trading but with virtually no success. Trading is extremely illiquid at these times and if you do get a fill (which is not very often) it usually means the market is about to move heavily against the fill you just had.
  6. I have had that experience with normal limit orders. If you get it too easily....it's probably not worth having.

    I think that is probably some kind of universal truth .... for stocks and relationships....


    Good Luck!
  7. hmap1


    The hidden Island order is not seen on the book.
  8. qazmax


    ISLD told me that 47% of orders in their book are invisible (hidden)...

  9. It is a universal truth. It's called "adverse selection." The likelihood of a limit order being filled is much higher at times you'll regret it was filled :D. In fact, theoretically speaking one of the three components of spread is what the MM's charge to cover the expected losses from adverse selection/asymmetric information.
  10. 47% in dollar value or in number?
    I assume they meant in number. Dollar volume might actually be higher. I almost always do reserve size with only a minor portion visible and the rest hidden.
    #10     Nov 29, 2003