So Israels fair game is it as far as all the hand wringers are concerned. Ok cool. In my home town theres an area thats now rammed with muslims. One of the streets in that area has been home to my family for generations.Dirty filthy animals, i want our street back. So this is what i plan to do. I'm gonna wipe em all out,and i've got all the lefties backing, excellent!!!
Ummm, so did they beat the shit out of you and kick you out of your "street"? What were the cops doing when the muzzies were beating the stuffing out of your ass and stealing your house?!!!! If that's the case, then can I come and help you "wipe 'em all out"?! Just like you I hate bullies! Lets go kick some Assss!!
Now then. Prostitution, drug dealing, making bombs, i find it amazing they have time to do this inbetween all the prayers
Huh?!! You chickened out? What happened to kicking some ass?!! After all we're within our rights since they beat you and stole your familys house and street!
My, my, resorting to name calling. How very mature. I think it is my duty to let you know you are making yourself look incredibly silly, in part due to this pissing match. I was trying to explain that hitting the y key, is likely to happen when touch typing, but typing two, when meaning too, is a slowness in the brain. No, my government do not. They consider the militia arm a terrorist organisation, but not the entire hizbollah. Get your facts straight, and then open that gob. Which leads me to... Lol. The Lavon affair was a conspiracy was it? The USS Liberty "could" have been a geniune mistake, the US navy made a boo boo and for that you cannot blame Israel. Whether they took advantage of that boo boo will never be known, but even the CIA were not happy about some of the explanations put forward by the Israelis. Are you saying that an Israeli general, who fought the 6 day war, knows less than you about how that war came about? Really? What, what? No, surely not? The official list still remains at 3 calling hizbollah a terrorist organisation, no matter how much you and I talk about it. That is another fact you like to call myth. Hizbollah did condemn 911 atrocity, you can check that up too (have you noticed you are looking really silly having called all these "conspiracy theories"?) Mossad agents were arrested, another undisputed by the USA government fact (you are looking really, really silly). I think it is time for us to put this debate between ourselves to bed. You have been proven to be wrong on the facts points (I've asked you to rebutt any of the claims and you haven't). Anyone else reading this will google the points I have raised and conclude you don't know what you are talking about. Further sparing on an internet forum will get us nowhere unless you are willing to at least read up on these points and then make a statement. You look ill informed by crying "conspiracy theory" (I mean, people wishing to live in peace a conspiracy theory? Oh grow up.
See this is what I mean, you are clearly Jewish/ Jewish sympathiser. What has a battle between 2 countries (Israel/Lebanon) got to do with musos and jews? Why do you feel the need to kick up some muslims coz Israel is engaged in a war? WTF? Read what you are saying, that is blatant rascism? I'm pretty sure that is illegal in your country, as it is in mine. How odd you are! Get a grip. It is illogical comments like yours that make (mass) debating on the internet so futile.
I have a feeling that many posters on this subject are Jewish and hence the inflammation of this subject. If you are, then I understand why you guys are getting more and more upset and cannot be unbiased and distanced. I'm not, actually a British atheist and believe not in god (or God, whatever). I will try to address your points, and please when you reply try to be balanced and do not take into account personal feelings, this is why things get out of hand, when people do not see the other sides pov. I'm glad that you can assess the situation and come up with your conclusion. I must say I disagree, merely because to me, a terrorist organisation must attack civilians, with the intention of frightening them. Merely hitting civilian targets (collatoral) is not enough, as that would make Israel a terrorist, and I do not think Israel is a terrorist. This is the gist of why I do not conclude hizbollah to be terrorists, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. They are not doing anything different to Israel. Israel has Lebanese civilians and personnel in custody that it was supposed to release according to various UN resolutions, it has failed to do so. Hizbollah has often had skirmishes with Israel and vice versa, nothing major but when one enters or gets close to borders they exchange fire. Israel has violated Lebanese airspace hundreds of times, in violation of UN resolutions, hizbollah has responded. They are both as bad as each other. Israel has done the same things as hizbollah and vice versa. Israeli operatives have killed politicians in Lebanon with their famous Mossad assasinations. How is any of their actions any different to those of hizbollah? Genuine question I'd like an educated, and thought out answer to? Without the usual media wording and pr spin on things? Genuinely. They are no different, hence why I cannot call them terrorists. This is a very good point, and I believe that the Lebanese cannot have it both ways. Yes, their government seems to have support for hizbollah to protect their southern territories from Israel. If they do, they must take the consequences of hizbollah's actions, no doubt. I agree with you 100% there. What my problem with Israel attacking like that was the proportion of innocent people being killed. In fact, even Israel themselves are not happy with it internally. An investigation is ongoing. I have never said Israel should never have fought back. It has been ill proportioned, the situation has been mirrored in the past, with prisoner swaps and not as many fatalities, remember that the Israeli soldiers have not been returned yet either, so hasn't achieved the goal.
Lol. The Lavon affair was a conspiracy was it? The USS Liberty "could" have been a geniune mistake, the US navy made a boo boo and for that you cannot blame Israel. Whether they took advantage of that boo boo will never be known, but even the CIA were not happy about some of the explanations put forward by the Israelis. I am not familiar with the lavon affair (gosh it was 60 years ago), there were three Israeli and 10 OFFICIAL american investigations into the USS Liberty incident, all of them OFFICIALLY concluded that it was an honest mistake and an accident, not a deliberate attack. You are big on OFFICIAL positions, aren't you, so this should certainly convince you that your facts are bogus and you're full of shit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident Are you saying that an Israeli general, who fought the 6 day war, knows less than you about how that war came about? Really? What, what? No, surely not? On May 22, Egypt announced that the Straits of Tiran would be closed to "all ships flying Israel flags or carrying strategic materials", with effect from May 23.[35] Also, Nasser stated, "Under no circumstances can we permit the Israeli flag to pass through the Gulf of Aqaba." on May 18 the Egyptian Foreign Minister informed nations with troops in UNEF that the UNEF mission in Egypt and the Gaza Strip had been terminated and that they must leave immediately, and Egyptian forces prevented UNEF troops from entering their posts. On the same day, Nasser proclaimed: "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more declarations."[44] "In June 1967, Egypt, Syria and Jordan massed their troops on Israel's borders in preparation for an all-out attack." Mideast 101: The Six Day War, CNN website. URL accessed May 14, 2006. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War The official list still remains at 3 calling hizbollah a terrorist organisation, no matter how much you and I talk about it. That is another fact you like to call myth. The US, Canada and Israel classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation. Britain, Holland and Australia are designating the Hezbollah External Security organisation as terrorist. Imad Mugniyeh, a senior Hezbollah intelligence officer, is on the EU terror list but not the group itself. 473 out of 483 members of the EU parliament designated Hezbollah as a terrorist group. Also, "the Netherlands, Italy and Poland, however, have agreed to consider Hezbollah as a terrorist organization." http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=3101 Mossad agents were arrested, another undisputed by the USA government fact (you are looking really, really silly). Is that what you call 'facts'? There were unconfirmed reports published primarily on antisemitic anti-israel websites that several Israelis were arrested on 9/11 (on immigration violation charges), released within a couple of days, no connection with the Mossad and/or 9/11 was established. Israeli security issued urgent warning to CIA of large-scale terror attacks ISRAELI intelligence officials say that they warned their counterparts in the United States last month that large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent. The Telegraph has learnt that two senior experts with Mossad, the Israeli military intelligence service, were sent to Washington in August to alert the CIA and FBI to the existence of a cell of as many of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation "They had no specific information about what was being planned but linked the plot to Osama bin Laden and told the Americans that there were strong grounds for suspecting Iraqi involvement," said a senior Israeli security official. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wcia16.xml But then again, you already said, you can't be bothered with reading, you can't be bothered with facts either, you're entitled to your own facts.
Your unabated recourse to insults alludes to the fact that you're aware you are inconsistent and are feeling under pressure to prove a point. That you are not aware of the Lavon affair does not cancel its existence. Answer the question, like a man, were you right or wrong, when you commented that: "Fact: Israel has committed terrorist acts against British and American interests in the past to gain support from both these countries and to distort truth in their favour." was: and then later confirmed my question as to whether you thought they were all incorrect: So, presuming you have read about the Lavon affair, do you accept that you were wrong? Do you accept that your conjecture regarding this point was incorrect? Consequently meaning that your opinion is based on personal bias? You do not reference facts before you make comment? Hence why your posts are less valuable than had you bothered to educate yourself on these matters before engaging your fingers? Since you fancy quoting wikipedia as fact, the situation I was refering to was the escalation of tensions upto that point. I'm hoping you are aware of Gen Moshe Dayan? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Dayan Quote from the above: You can see that according to an impecable source, who is not likely to be biased to the Syrians, that Israel liked to instigate aggression looking for a reaction so that they can have an excuse to obtain land. Do you disbelieve Gen Dayan too, who's story matches strikingly complaints made by the Syrians at that time? Again, until that is done, I was right and you were wrong. Consensus is that they are not terrorists. At this present time, I am right, and you are wrong. You are clearly wrong. Check wikipedia for yourself. You are flogging a dead horse with this one. Note that I have made it already clear that I will think for myself, not necessarily what my government forces me to think. My point in this instance, was that overwhelming opinion at this present time, is that hizbollah are not terrorists. End of story. You're wrong, are you man enough to accept it? Check documentaries with interviews with both Mossad and FBI, neither deny Mossad agents were arrested and released without charge. Neither deny they were arrested in a van that was seen earlier by witnesses with men using binoculars to watch the incident. What this amounts to, is anyones guess. But the fact remains, it happened, and you denied, whereas now you are saying they were warning the US government. I was not and am not going into what they were doing there, just that they were there. As was the removals company which was a front for a Mossad team. Mossad do not deny that this team was there. Something you are now agreeing with me. Does this indicate you now agree to this point then, and that it's not "bogus"? You made this into a pissing match, trying to disprove certain items that are fact, and are now trying a u turn on it, using excuses such as "I didn't know about that" and "they were there for a different reason". You made up your facts as you went along, and are now reverting to what I had said from the beginning, all the while using insults (you'll note I've refrained from that, I haven't even had a pop at your nationality in retaliation to where you have mine). Answer me one question, why are you so hostile to the truth? Are you Israeli or Jewish, and do you think the outing of the truth is beneficial or detrimental to Israel? I personally think if Israel can come to terms with some of its wrongs, it will go a long way towards obtaining this much needed peace. Israel is a young country (remember it started off with terrorist activities in order to get what it wanted, read stern gang) that will grow and learn. But to put its head in the sand is not good for anyone, least of all the true peace desiring Israeli's who have had enough of the fighting. Israel owes it to its people to secure peace for them, a war every few years does not achieve that, and never will.
No one can obfuscate and confuse things as well as the brits do so let me get back to your first post and set the record straight. Fact: Israel has committed terrorist acts against British and American interests in the past to gain support from both these countries and to distort truth in their favour. No, that's not a fact. Even if you consider the Lavon Affair (which did not kill anyone and took place 52 years ago in 1954) - even in that case it's one terrorist act (not terrorist acts as you claimed). And again it happened more than half a century ago in a totally different era. Fact: Israel is not blameless in its wars with Syria which culminated in the 1967 war. That' not a fact, while most likely true (no one is ever absolutely and completely blameless) - that's a matter of opinions and speculation. Fact: Israel fought to ensure water from Syria and Jordan were redirected to their growing settlements. That's not a fact. Fact: A lot of Americans know jack shit about the ME, talk irrationally from their proverbial backsides, and think every MEer wants to take away his life, for no other reason than he is an American. Think about how freaking stupid that is, and you'll see why some of us Brits dont view you as "worldly". That's certainly a fact, a lot of Americans know jack shit about the ME, a lot of brits know jack shit about the ME as well and BBC is just as biased as Foxnews. Fact: It ain't so just because your gov'ment or mine says so. True Fact: 3 countries in the entire world think hizbollah are terrorists. 190 think not. Concensus, they are not terrorists. That's not a fact, three countries have them on their official terrorist lists, several more countries have Hezbollah's militant branch on their terrorist lists, 98% of the EU parliament do think they are terrorists. Fact: The governments in both the USA and the UK are the biggest threat to all our freedoms. Blair says:"the muslims are opposed to our way of life and our freedoms". No shithead, YOU are! That's not a fact, that's nonsense not even worth responding to (and I am not Bush's fan by any stretch of imagination). Fact: The 911 atrocity was condemned by the majority of the muslim countries, including hizbollah. But that does not suit yours or my countries propoganda machines, so its not reported. First it actually WAS reported, second the muslim governments condemned it while their subjects (especially in arab countries) were dancing in the streets. Fact: The 911 atrocity was also investigated completely, useful as the "required" precursor to kick off events that were needed to secure oil. That's not a fact, that's a conspiracy theory. Fact: Mossad agents were arrested at the time of the 911 atrocity, apparently seen watching with binoculars and cheering at the time of impact. A Mossad operation was uncovered and later closed down after the event. That's not a fact that's a conspiracy theory. Fact: Most people just want to live in peace, but unfortunately it is not in the interest of governments not to have a bogey man out there, if it were the muso's, it'd be some other big bad enemy. Whilst of course enemies will exist, none of them are on a grand enough scale to justify such blatant removal of freedoms as the ID card, such as the practical outlawing of cash, such as proposed black boxes in everyones cars. Where will it end, when we are chipped, and are awarded "credits" to our "accounts" on the national register? While that's technically true I am not sure what exactly you're talking about, no one is removing freedoms, no one is outlawing cash or installing black boxes in cars in this country, maybe in yours they are. Oh and I nearly forgot, however you call it, hizbollah handed Israel their ass in combat, even the Israeli soldiers were surprised and commented on how effective they were. The myth of the infallible Israeli army has been reversed. That's not a fact, Hezbollah did better than expected, israel did worse than expected but that's a far cry from "handing Israel their ass in combat". Don't forget that 15,000 UN troops and 15,000 Lebanese troops are going to occupy Southern Lebanon, Beirut's shia neighborhoods are in ruins, I suspect that's more than what Nazrallah bargained for, if this is how Hezbollah wins I don't want to know how they lose.