hey HFT scum, yeah, you. Watch this

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from risktaker:

Oh I see, the oil companies do a great environmental job when the government lets the free markets 'do their thing'.

The same with the banks.

Ditto for credit card scammers.

On & on & on to just about every industry.

No, we don't need regulation.

Let them stuff your food with shit & other chemicals & let's see if you'd still be saying the same thing!

Police? Who needs them. Give a gun to every citizen & there'l be peace on earth. No more criminals.
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Why do you mention the free market?

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from asiaprop:

so why dont you educate all of us, as you seem to suggest we are all in the dark except you. I dont see any purpose whatsoever in HFT, the liquidity argument is UTTER BS, and I dont say that since May 6. What other useful purpose does HFT and dark pools, for that matter, serve except a few privileged parties?

I am very much a proponent of free markets, less government intervention. BUT I believe the most important ingredients of any free market is TRANSPARENCY and TRUSTWORTHY AND FAIR price discovery. Right now not only the retail guys get raped, but also lots of long-term investors, smaller trading shops, or anyone without the most sophisticated and expensive devices to compete. Dont get me wrong I dont engage in short term day trades (its pretty apparent if you ever read any of my posts) but I think you are delusional claiming that long-term investors are not negatively affected by HFT.

So, lets hear your arguments after you proclaimed everyone but yourself an idiot.
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Tranparency is not important, you just deal with whatever comes along. The illusion of tranparency/government protection etc on the other hand is dangerous, as it makes one naive/lower ones guard.

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from asiaprop:

fully agree, I am sick of anarchistic individuals in favor of zero government intervention. Those who have an issue with law and order should maybe consider moving to the Alaskan peninsula to pursue hunting and fishing. The remaining 99.5% of the world's population prefers to give up certain rights to privacy in favor of fair and safe markets which punish abusers and those who dont want to play by the rules. In my opinion fines imposed by the SEC should be multiplied by at least a factor of 100 anything else is a joke. If those guys were not watching porn all day then they would not be pursuing cases on which they are 1.5-2 years behind.

The problem with today's markets is definitely not that they are too patrolled but that there is too little regulation.
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Can`t you just deal with what`s going on, i.e. stay away if you`re not up to the task.

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from asiaprop:

glad you asked: HFT in itself is not harming the market (NOR does it add any value whatsoever). What comes along with HFT is what REALLY DOES HARM the rest of all market participants. Keywords, sub-pennying, flash orders, co-location (which takes everyone else out of the business but those who have the ability to invest millions just to get up and running), finally putting orders in the market to mislead other participants and which are not real orders but get pulled before they can be hit. This has nothing to do with a market that is fair, transparent, and affords equal opportunities to all market participants.

See, you actually prove all my points, you provided a good example about mailing services yet you applied it incorrectly. Email is a great invention and solved many problems and improved speed of delivery. You know what the great thing about emails is? Its that its freely available to ALL of us. Open a company which offers server rentals for co-location at $50/month and I will drop my argument.
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Why should it be a right to be capable to scalp stocks, even if you can`t compete?

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from asiaprop:

1) anything that allows for faster routing than the fastest fiber optics cable that is available to retail guys living in NJ or Manhattan. You know you can continue playing this mind game but you know, it does not change the fact that what most consider fair is an access that someone who is engaged in this business professionally or personally can afford to invest to be part of the game. Fiber Optics is not too much to ask, paying hundreds of thousands for code development that can execute code in single digit milliseconds and server rentals and leased lines is too much to ask. This is a discussion which should start on a fundamental level rather than splitting hairs. Most of the times those who try to get into #peanut negotiation discussions" appear to be close to running out of arguments. You sound very much like it.

2) Rest assured a lot more than 1% of the HFT participants move orders around, so fast and so often that it has nothing to do with transparent markets anymore. If you go to a car dealership and the price of the car changes every 5 seconds depending on how the impression by the sales man of your psychological state changes by the second then you would be pissed off, wont you? If I see an order in the market, hit it, and find out a second later that it was pulled just 0.1 seconds before I hit then what does that tell me? Bad luck???

Joke yourself!
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2. If you contacy every car dealership on the planet simontainously, you will get price changes every 5 seconds!

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from asiaprop:

Lol, then again I ask you, what purpose do HFT serve then if they can completely disappear when markets get hot? I mean sure if they had the same rights than all market participants then fair, they can turn off machines whenever they want. However, with all the perks that come along being in the HFT segment I ask you where they pay up for in exchange for all the perks they are getting (perks = look couple posts above)...

A good business deal is always something that benefits both sides, a suckers play is something where one side extracts all the profits in order for the other side to be on the losing side all the time. Guess who pays for all those pennies...
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So why do you take participate, if you don`t benefit?

asiaprop · May 29, 2010

please stay away if you do not even grasp the most basic concepts. You do yourself the biggest favor.

So you understand, regular price takers do not have any other choice. The problem, and I repeat myself now again, is that what often seems to be a legit bid or offer is not but gets pulled right in front of your face RIGHT AFTER you submit the order RIGHT BEFORE it arrives at the matching engine, and that uncountable times just this year. If you dont execute orders then please do not participate in this discussion as the value you may add is probably not worth the time you waste.

Quote from loik:

So why do you take participate, if you don`t benefit?
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Nofear777 · May 29, 2010

Quote from loik:

So why do you take participate, if you don`t benefit?
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What a jerk*off comment.

What has that got to do with anything? Go die slowly.

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from asiaprop:

please stay away if you do not even grasp the most basic concepts. You do yourself the biggest favor.

So you understand, regular price takers do not have any other choice. The problem, and I repeat myself now again, is that what often seems to be a legit bid or offer is not but gets pulled right in front of your face RIGHT AFTER you submit the order RIGHT BEFORE it arrives at the matching engine, and that uncountable times just this year. If you dont execute orders then please do not participate in this discussion as the value you may add is probably not worth the time you waste.
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How many people/institutions put out orders, you`re making itr soun like there you and 1 other market participant, who cancels his order when you want to trade?

loik · May 29, 2010

Quote from Nofear777:

What a jerk*off comment.

What has that got to do with anything? Go die slowly.
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I answered a poster who thought everyone should be entitled to benefit when taking part in the market?