HELP: Beyond Intraday Trading

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Hitman, Sep 2, 2001.

  1. Hitman


    I think a lot of you are missing my point here. My point is that I am not happy with just learning during the market hours, I would like to learn SOMETHING when I am not trading. The financial market has no limit, and I would like to enrich my knowledge and prepare for the future when I will undoubtly want to play on a bigger stage. It is about laying down the building blocks, and I believe they will eventually merge together and help me in my intraday trading as well.

    It is the thirst for knowledge, the hunger to become a complete individual. All of those fund managers who blow up, they still made more money than just about ANY intraday trader for themselve. There is no question that they are the big fish, and there is no replacement for the depth of knowledge they possess.

    I mean, even if you are making serious money day trading, you don't want to stop there, why stop there? You will want to do more, learn more.

    If there is one thing I realized this weekend, is that all of those people pursuing advanced degrees can't be wrong, and if I want to keep it up without a degree, I can not be happy with what I already know, I must read, read, and read some more to keep up.

    Sure, you need experience to convert paper knowledge into real usable wisdom, but if we read the manual before we operate the machine, we won't have to make every single mistake in the book, at least not as much as we would have without doing the paper work.

    I have confidence in intraday trading, but think about what we are doing for a second, we are taking money out of big guy's pockets, fighting for the scraps on their table. It is cool, don't get me wrong, but one day, I would like to be on a higher tier.

    That day won't be here any time soon, but I don't want to do JUST intraday trading for the rest of my life, I know I can do more than that. I haven't mastered intraday trading yet, but as I said, it will have to come from experience, as I haven't read any book that is really helpful for a long time. (If anyone know an intraday trading book I should read, let me know, most if are total garbage or written for newbies)

    I want knowledge, experience can only come from battle, knowledge can come from training, I want to train harder, because I realized how much I don't know . . .
    #21     Sep 3, 2001
  2. RAY


    As previously mentioned. Go for a CFA. It solves all if your issues (doubts), and you can study on your own time. Plus, like it or not, you will get something out of it to fall back on. A CFA has a lot of pull on a resume. It will be difficult without "some" background in corporate finance, but I think you can do it.
    #22     Sep 3, 2001
  3. Babak


    I disagree re CFA (Chartered Financial Analyst)

    It is a designation that was created to supply financial analysts to corporations and the private sector. The CFA is NOT simply three tests . There is a work requirement that you have to fulfill with surprisingly specific details (for example, 40% decision making in your job). This obviously requires that you have a corporate job. And one that fits the AIMR's definition. Without this last part you CAN NOT use the CFA initials, even if you have done all the three tests! And you will not be able to refer to yourself as a CFA, but rather someone who has completed Level III of the CFA (a mouthfull).So forget about the resume impressing thing.

    Another hit against it is that it is gear towards fundamental analysis. You know all those analysts we love to make fun of? Blodget, Abby Cohen, etc..?? Guess what! They are CFAs.

    If it is knowledge you seek, then find a mentor, read great books, go to exeptional seminars, attend a good MBA program, etc.

    Personally, I don't think the CFA fits in any way with Hitman's goals. Just my thoughts!
    #23     Sep 3, 2001
  4. Htrader

    Htrader Guest


    If you are serious about pursuing an education, you might try to take some night school classes at a local college. These courses could prepare you for a degree in economics or some finance related field in a relatively short amount of time while still allowing you to trade full time. Reading books to improve your knowledge is always good, but a degree is something tangible that others can appreciate.
    #24     Sep 3, 2001
  5. RAY


    Well I disagree too. :)

    Who said anything about only 3 tests?

    One of Hitman's first criterions was fundamental analysis.

    "Another hit against it is that it is gear towards fundamental analysis. You know all those analysts we love to make fun of? Blodget, Abby Cohen, etc..?? Guess what! They are CFAs."

    I believe Hitamn wants to spread out and manage money in many sectors and time frames. In my opinion to down play the need for a diverse knowledge base in Corporate Finance and Markets would be a potential fatal flaw. You list two CFAers that are not in this field (Managing Money). How about many top mangers? Guess what! They are CFAs too.

    BTW, how is he going to get (attend?) an MBA? If that were and option I would agree. If Hitman would consider going to school part time he should consider a finance degree. Plus an MBA program will not be nearly as benefical without having experience in that "corporate job" you mentioned

    I will not even touch, "great books" and "'exceptional' seminars." IMO, I think Hitman is contemplating the feasibility of reaching a level far above books and seminars.

    HitMan, I think that the CFA fits your position well (Even with my previously mentioned lack of Corporate and Finance background). Regardless if you can put "CFA" next to your name right after you complete it (I can only assume many can't).

    Oh, and to say that it does not have pull without the letters printed (in any circumstances) is somewhat off (IMO).

    I'm out. Good Luck
    #25     Sep 3, 2001
  6. Babak


    Look, I'll put it simply, without getting a corporate job you can not
    get the CFA. Period.

    Hitman wants to become a better trader. That has nothing to do with having the letters c f a after his name.

    People who do not have the CFA and that are great traders: Jim Rogers, George Soros, Marty Schwartz, Steve Cohen, etc. Call me biased, but if someone has a CFA I think right away they have something going against them for becoming a great trader. Why? Because the CFA program has been designed to spit out analysts. If you enter it, the AIMR will do their darndest to accomplish this. Is that what Hitman wants? I don't think so.

    If your goal is not to get the designation but just knowledge. Fine, then doesn't that just mean reading books?which takes us to what I said before.

    And what is the diff between an MBA classroom and a seminar? Nothing. If they be of high quality, both are great. An MBA can be specialized as much as you want, strategy, corporate finance, derivatives, portfolio management, etc.
    #26     Sep 3, 2001
  7. RAY


    So are you saying he couldn't sit for the CFA?

    To put it simply. It wouldn't be hard for him to structure his trading "corporation" or business to do and sit for WHAT ever he wants. Remember he would not be sitting for it tomorrow, and he is an employee (member) at a firm.

    "And what is the diff between an MBA classroom and a seminar?"
    This is obviously a statement of opinion and experience?

    I am not here to argue, that is why I have about 80 posts in over two years. I just think your "opinion" is being represented as fact, and I was just wanted to tell Hitman my opinion being that a while ago I was in the same position (different circumstances) as he.

    #27     Sep 3, 2001
  8. tradex21


    Hitman I think you should walk around the corner and fill out an application to go to work for Goldman Sachs or Bear Stearns. Maybe they could put you on a sell side desk,(they never put newbies on a buy side desk). OR go over to the World Trade Center or Chicago and lease a seat on one of the commodity exchanges. I have a hunch you are smart enough to know you are just going to grind yourself out, at the rate you are going. This stock trading game is going to peter out to nothing for the next few years with these new rules. It takes years to get back a generation of traders who have been fooked like this or wait for new ones to become adults. The world is also becoming unstable again which will make commodities the place to be. QUIT beating yourself up. And go sell insurance before you waste your time getting a CFA monicker, these people now have the respect of $20 whores in Reno.:p
    #28     Sep 4, 2001
  9. Babak



    I'm not here to argue either. I'm just pointing out that to get the CFA designation you have to fulfill a job requirement (just like the other requirements - the passing of three exams.) Unfortunately most that take a cursory look at the program miss this.

    And it is rather specific and demanding. Trust me I almost went through it.

    It requires that your job fit into a template that they give you. For example, it has to be a certain type of job, with different tasks. They even go into the detail of breaking your job down and saying that it has to have a certain portion of this and a bit of that(say for example, analysis or planning) .

    Also they want your immediate supervisor to fill out a form and send it to the AIMR.

    I don't know if you've actually researched the CFA program or know that much about the details. But structuring yourself as a corporation will not fulfill the above. And that's not my opinion.

    The point is that the CFA is great if you want a career in a corporation (and climb the ladder). It is completely inadequate for a trader. And that is my opinon! :)
    #29     Sep 4, 2001
  10. dozu888


    Stock market crash, high unemployment, HIGHLY leveraged consumers, overvalued dollar....

    A big move is around the corner ?
    #30     Sep 4, 2001