Heaven is a fairy tale, says physicist Hawking

and its not me... taking quotes out of context... its science.....

"Bernard Carr is an astronomer at Queen Mary University, London. Unlike Martin Rees, he does not enjoy wooden-panelled rooms in his day job, but inhabits an office at the top of a concrete high-rise, the windows of which hang as if on the edge of the universe. He sums up the multiverse predicament: “Everyone has their own reason why they’re keen on the multiverse. But what it comes down to is that there are these physical constants that can’t be explained. It seems clear that there is fine tuning, and you either need a tuner, who chooses the constants so that we arise, or you need a multiverse, and then we have to be in one of the universes where the constants are right for life.”

But which comes first, tuner or tuned? Who or what is leading the dance? Isn’t conjuring up a multiverse to explain already outlandish fine-tuning tantamount to leaping out of the physical frying pan and into the metaphysical fire?

Unsurprisingly, the multiverse proposal has provoked ideological opposition. In 2005, the New York Times published an opinion piece by a Roman Catholic cardinal, Christoph Schönborn, in which he called it “an abdication of human intelligence.” That comment led to a slew of letters lambasting the claim that the multiverse is a hypothesis designed to avoid “the overwhelming evidence for purpose and design found in modern science.” But even if you don’t go along with the prince of the church on that, he had another point which does resonate with many physicists, regardless of their belief. The idea that the multiverse solves the fine-tuning of the universe by effectively declaring that everything is possible is in itself not a scientific explanation at all: if you allow yourself to hypothesize any number of worlds, you can account for anything but say very little about how or why."

http://www.philosophypress.co.uk/?p=137

 

Are you talking about "miracles"? If so, I would encourage you to think about a logical reason as to why you think you've seen a miracle. Just because a very low probability event occurs, does not mean there is "something else" out there performing miracles.

The odds of winning the lottery are extremely low. Many people who win the lottery consider it a miracle; an act of god. When in reality, what has occured is a very low probability event that had nothing to do with any supernatural being.

 

U assume that no one has ever detected this. I would posit that once detected, it becomes clear that each person here must do so on his own. Telling him there is a God is insufficient. Every religious text says this, and I have read them all.

So I say to you, keep looking, you say to me, bah, humbug. But the day will come, unless you experience a sudden death, that you will search. Age and mortality will cause you to look. The reality that you will be leaving here will make you seek. And if you are diligent, you will find.

 

So you admit that Hawking and Susskind speculate that the reason the universe appears designed is because there are almost infinite alternate universes.

So why do you quote them saying "the universe appears designed", and then present that as your argument for a creator?

Both Hawking and Susskind argue against a creator, yet you quote them as arguing FOR a creator. You are the one lieing and being dishonest.

 

That is great for you. But surely you can understand why an atheist would think you are crazy when you try to present this as evidence of god.

 

i have already done the search. conclusion is its all bunk. when you grow up maybe you will be able to throw off the shackles of a superstitious mind. it is total freedom.
i would hate to go through live thinking/fearing there is a boogie man up there who has control over me. to me that would be almost like slavery.

 

I deal with death on a daily basis. I am a gatekeeper, so to speak. Many people can tell you the day the are going to die, what is miraculous, is that our medicine says they are well. Do you have kids? If so, you are looking at miracles right there. At what point to they become sentient? Do you know? I don't either.

It is hubris to believe that all we see, touch, smell, hear, and taste is all there is,when our animals can tell us when earthquakes are coming, where there are bombs, etc. It is silly to think you have it all put together.

 

FT, I respect your position, I have been there. But I assure you, the day comes when you will re-evaluate your position. I guarantee it.

 

you really do not get it do you?

There is no proof of even one other universe.... it is speculation based on string theory... which says there could be almost infinite other universes.

The evidence these and other top scientists cite indicates our universe (the only one we have proof of) appears extraordinarily designed. But theses scientists choose to continue research into explanations for why the appearance of design exists.

That is what scientists do, its good for us.
We would not expect them to stop and say... ah... the universe is designed.

 

i have been where you are. i was a believer for most of my life. i cant assure you that you will be able to throw off your mental bondage but i hope for your sake you have the courage to do it.