Nonesense. There is nothing fundamentalist about this. Itâs just another popular movement competing for global dominance. Letâs not try to separate the guys in the caves from the Muslim street which morally supports their cause. To put it in another way, suppose you and I agree that some guy is evil. I kill him, but you didnât want me to because itâs murder. Nevertheless, my actions you condemn caused a place in your heart to ring with satisfaction because this man you despise is now gone. There are still plenty of practicing Muslims in the West who still want to believe itâs the West and its policies that make Muslims do nasty things. Having said that, there is a growing chorus of Muslim leaders condemning violent Jihad, but itâs still a minority. And many who do, do so grudgingly because they would look stupid apologizing for it, or remaining silent, as the Muslim World continues to make an ass of itself. At least this is a long way from the days when every time one Muslim commits violence, another would quickly change the subject to another diatribe about Israel and Palestine. False. Anyone has access to al-jazeera here in the states. All they have to do is subscribe to a satellite service that offers it. We also have access to it on the web. If youâre wondering why our major cable/satellite providers do not offer al-jazerra, it has to do with the lack of interest, more than government intervention. Unlike our European and East-Canadian friends, as well as the Muslim World, There arenât enough Americans who wallow in paranoid conspiracy theories to make it profitable. Even the Americans who love Michael Moore would be turned off by al-Jazeera. And our Muslims are much more assimilated than Muslims in Canada and Europe, who canât let a day go by without watching the program. Everyone knows that countries and cultures have different belief systems. But if you want to talk about who is thick-headed, how about all those cultural relativists in Europe who rolled over and played dead as their own society and culture got run over? Americans would never let non-assimilating Muslims, and their political Islamist infrastructure take root in the states as it has (irreversibly Iâm afraid) in parts of Europe. We have a Mexican immigration problem, sure, but at least Mexicans and Americans share many Western and Christian values. Youâre the one bringing it up. By the way, Israel has been pacified by itâs own majority of Leftists. 18% of Israelis are Muslim already. Israel canât even help itself. And itâs a waste of time and debate to bring up the Jews when we talk about the growing conflict between major civilizations. Using the Jews to support tit-for-tat arguments is useless today. As Iâve said before, we are now on our 5th year since 9/11, and most people in the West realize that the Palestine and Israel conflict has much to do about nothing.
well ok, not EVERY muslim, but the vast majority are. i have no idea where you guys get your misguided ideas from cos i dont have access to your tv luckily. in the uk and other european channels, EVERY TIME there is a terrorist attack from the islamic fundamentalists ANYWHERE, THERE IS ALWAYS a iman/head of some muslim group standing up and protesting that these actions and beliefs ARE NOT shared by the majority of muslims. we call this FREE SPEECH!!! we allow muslims to have their say and speak out at how they detest these incidents being made in the name of their religion. just as i detest bushs actions being made under the name of a christian. i guess that you yanks CLEARLY NEVER SEE THESE MUSLIMS DENOUNCE TERRORISM ON YOUR MEDIA because of BUSHS PROPAGANDA!!!! like i keep telling you lot: "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." you all think the muslims are out to get you when they are not - only a small minority of them. you are being told you are being attacked by the masses. you are not. you are not even allowed to see for your selves when your 'alleged enemy' denounces these activities. this is because you are just a bunch of dumb fucking sheep - off to the slaughter to fight someone elses war! fuck me! how stupid can you get? in a way i kind of feel sorry for you lot. you know no different because you are controlled, yet at the same time you are told you are free. God bless america? i dont think so somehow. i think america is the last place he would bless because you are all so filled with ignorance and hate. jesus taught us to 'love thy neighbour'. this was his #1 message. somehow, i think this one has slipped past all you lot who claim to be such devout followers of his word (people like bush anyhow)
Oh but we do. Every time there is a terrorist attack we have imams and arab/muslim representatives on every talk and TV show denouncing terror. This is what they usually say: Islam is a religion of peace and we denounce terrorism and violence...and if Israel did this and that, and If America met all muslim demands and if the West accepted responsibility for all muslim problems the terrorist attacks would not have happened. As Israel and the US and the West are not cooperating with fair and balanced requirements of the arab street it's hard not to understand where terrorists are coming from and why they resort to killing innocent civilians, it's hard not to be sympathetic to their cause and their struggle. And until Israel, the US, the West and especially Danish cartoonists fully comply with their demands they should realistically expect that terror attacks will not only continue but will intensify... This is the kind of "denunciation" we normally get, honestly only idiots can take it seriously, I am not surprised you did.
Easiest of all is to dismiss my position as "unthinking". If you ever do start to think, especially on things you've been told you musn't, you too might realize it's liberals who are drinking the Kool Aid. Best of luck to you.
Thatâs because the Muslim body politic is more established and sophisticated in the U.K. than here in the states. Itâs in their best interest to have their leadership condemn the violent acts in order to maintain Islamâs image and status in the U.K. and avoid a backlash, which would undermine their long-term efforts in influencing U.K. society. All we have are groups like CAIR, and they are too busy trying to maintain their own credibility. http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/230 You may call it free speech, but donât be quick to assume these Muslim leaders reflect the hearts and minds of the people they claim to represent. Incidentally, our media is not a big fan of Bush. And if anybody is studying Al Jazerra, itâs our own journalists. And quite frankly, the widespread islamist savagery caught on tape overshadows what some stuffy Imam has to say in London. Actions speak louder than words. Perhaps our journalists donât believe Islamâs PR people when they see the violence with their own eyes. We are not being told we are being attacked by the masses. What are you talking about? The âsmall groups of isolated extremistsâ argument has been stuffed down our throats over and over again until people realized for themselves that Jihadists must have broader financial and moral support. Itâs not fair to blame every German for Nazi Germany. But Nazi Germany couldnât happen without the collective state of mind of the German people at the time. The idea that a group of Jihadists are running around killing people, organizing mass rallies, and so on, while âmost Muslims condemn itâ makes absolutely no sense to me. I just donât understand your delusions. I donât understand why you think we are ignorant and âcontrolledâ and you are not. Talk about control and ignorance: how about our negligence in defending our values and culture, as well as the epidemic of intellectual self-loathing, and cultural relativism? This only invites more non-Western cultural predation and more Islamist seats in Western parliaments. I think you Brits have a lot more to worry about than our unpopular Iraq campaign, and a group of American pro-life evangelicals.
Like I said, it seems real easy for you. You just let your sensory organs identify things/people that you hate by matching up their appearance with your inbuilt template, and if they match (wearing a turban, dark skin, slany eyes, weird clothing) then you hate them. Simple. Fascinating that you are able to edmit that you are a racist, xenophobe, homophobe, extremeist, and you can then turn arounf and accuse me of unthiking judgement. I guess I shouldn't expect any more out of you. Sleep on.
Your position?? Which position would that be? The position of being a hate-filled xenophobe, extremist and racist?? Sheesh. Like I said, it seems real easy for you. You just let your sensory organs identify things/people that you hate by matching up their appearance with your inbuilt template, and if they match (wearing a turban, dark skin, slanty eyes, weird clothing, unfamiliar language) then you hate them. Simple. I'm not surprised that for you, anyone who doesn't share your lazy-ass interpretations is a liberal. Why wouldn't they be? In your world, everything is either black... or (r)white. Fascinating that you are able to admit that you are a racist, xenophobe, homophobe, extremist, and you can then turn around and accuse me of unthinking judgement. Do you seriously think that you can admit to such failings and then escape the judgement of moral men? I guess I shouldn't expect any more out of you. Sleep on. And by the way, you're kidding yourself if you think you're on the 'right', politically.
FredBloggs, I'm relieved to hear the UK has remained a bastion of free speech and tolerance. Tell me, what would happen if you paraded outside the Finsbury Park mosque with the mohammed cartoons on a sign? Would all those tolerant imans defend your right to free speech? I suspect you would find that tolerance with islamists is strickly a one way street.
sure they would get upset. i would probably be arrested under the race hate laws (that also include religion). just like all the jews would get upset if you denied the holocaust, or israels right to exist. yet surely, under the laws of free speech, you have every right to deny the holocaust or deny israels right to exist? what about if someone paraded out side your house with a big 'AAA is a moron' sign, and distributed leaflets to your neighbours stating all the silly embarrassing stuff you may have done in your teens. would you find that offensive? what would you do? so whats your point exactly? with the freedom of speech comes responsibility. i believe that muslims should live by our values if they want to live in the west. however, there is no need for us to bend over backwards to make them feel at home. just like if i went to live in their countries, i would respect their customs and traditions. i wouldnt insist that i could open a bar and walk round drunk all the time if i knew it would offend them in their country. believe it or not, the MAJORITY of muslims i think would agree with me on this, and indeed do live by these standards. indeed, many muslim families complain that their sons and daughters over here are losing their muslim values and becoming too westernised as they start drinking and wearing western clothes as they try to fit in. they dont, as many would believe on these threads, get their hands chopped off for smoking a fag, kill their siblings for kissing jews, or celebrate 9-11 like its christmas day as some of the shit-for-brains on this site believe.