Have I just been lucky?

Discussion in 'Options' started by nln1972, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. destriero

    destriero

    $35/contract and the guy thinks that's luck.
     
    #11     Feb 9, 2019
  2. ironchef

    ironchef

    Selling put is a bullish bet so he should be profitable in a general bull market. He bought more OTM puts as protection which is very smart, it protected him from those down months.
     
    #12     Feb 9, 2019
  3. qlai

    qlai

    But 30-37% is impressive, just via selling premiums?
     
    #13     Feb 9, 2019
  4. Oh, that's right. So he been selling put, so he been betting on a bull market.
    Just check the SP500 chart, it's sort of been rising last year until recently, it fell substantially.
    OK, I don't actually trade stocks. I trade currencies and commodities.
    I thought stocks comove with other financial assets, maybe not in the longer term time frames...
     
    #14     Feb 9, 2019
  5. ironchef

    ironchef

    Maybe you can explain his 30%-40% total return.

    Take AAPL as an example, underlying $170, sold put @ $165 paid $.51, for 6 days expiration, so he bought $155 for protection costing $.07, 1 contract paid ~$35 net of slippage and commission, he tied up $17,000.

    Let's say he did 52 deal a year (weekly with one week to expiry) and they were all winners, that would be ~11% on capital, not counting commissions and slippage. He could go on margin but then the risk profile would be very different.
     
    #15     Feb 9, 2019
  6. ironchef

    ironchef

    See my post asking destriero. I think he used leverage and you know what happen if you use leverage. Remember Karen, LTCM, optionstrader.com....
     
    #16     Feb 9, 2019
    qlai likes this.
  7. Bekim

    Bekim

    I mean if you survived the last year with that type of strategy you must be doing something right. I would say if you did well from 2009-2016 then it was luck of being in the right market but not the last 2 years
     
    #17     Feb 9, 2019
  8. destriero

    destriero

    Yes, the math is fiction, but your math is off as well. The AAPL trade would require a $956 debit + comms. A 4.6% return on debit.
     
    #18     Feb 9, 2019
  9. Trust your gut. If you've had a significant amount of trades, than it's not luck.
     
    #19     Feb 10, 2019
  10. nln1972

    nln1972

    I am using margin.

    Multiplying out this deal as a hypothetical though, I see the risk as $10/share, so $1k, excluding costs. Let’s multiply that by say 15x stocks = $15k. I do 10-20 week, depending on whether I can find stocks where the 2SD is near a support level.

    So, week by week, I’m risking say $15k on a current NLV of $90k. The risk then is not so much huge crashes but rather multiple of them happening throughout the year. Sustained ~5% week on week declines (like Dec) are actually fine. I guess this works with the right market vol characteristics and not others. Just so happens that the past 2 years have been fine.

    To state the blatently obvious, this seems to work only with the right stock selection, where there is support. In the aapl example that $0.50 put is an arbitrary price. Arguably whether there’s support or not shouldn’t make a difference - the price should reflect odds of hitting the first put. Perhaps I should run a backtest picking a random set of stocks 2SD out and see if there’s a difference.

    Appreciate the feedback though.
     
    #20     Feb 10, 2019