Has there ever been a single documented case of profitable live trades?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by whred, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. Not that I know of. Those who can, quietly get on with it. Those who cannot, or who do not do it optimally, make all the noise in the world. This isn't necessarily because they are selling something - believe it or not despite the opportunities in trading to lift yourself into ultra high net worth it appears most on forums such as this are content to aim as high as grinding out some sort of living. This almost always involves haphazard trading, excuses, inaccuracies, and mental crutches.

    As I posted the other day, there is a wide scale in this business ranging from total failure though mediocre all the way to very successful. Unfortunately there seems to be a tendency for people to ignore or disparage anything outside their own familiarity. Trading accommodates all types of participant. However the "for a living" grinders seem to disdain any more ambitious goals and those set on achieving high levels of accuracy and ultimately riches disdain those doing it for a living as unimaginative and unambitious or simply just unable. Those who have failed miserably resent everyone else.

    So you ask the question as to profitability. This means making money. One day and even one trade would be sufficient. However, what I suspect you are aiming at is does anyone have the ability, either through discretionary trading or a quantitative method, to get it consistently right day in day out and amass considerable profits.

    The answer to your question is an unequivocal yes. Can you find any proof of this? Maybe, maybe not. If you are in certain professions (legal, accountancy, tax) you may come across in the course of your work some highly successful private traders. Equally, as an employee of a financial institution you may be part of, or know of, a team of traders who lift considerable sums from a certain niche. Depending on how high up in the organisational structure you are, you may know details of this, hear rumours of this, or know nothing of this.

    For reasons which ought to be obvious the very best of the best do not wish to attract attention. At the highest levels you are recognised by other successful men and women in various fields and have no need of general notoriety. Some live low profile, others in enclaves with similarly situated others.

    As in the example of Roger Bannister and the four minute mile, some people need to see evidence that something can be done before they have the belief to achieve it for themselves. In trading, it might be helpful for a newcomer to see proof that it can be done (rather than arrogant boasting from know-nothings or know-littles or blatant snake oil peddling).

    To these people, I would suggest a few avenues. First, there is the professional services route if one is already in it, and the institutional route. Another place to start would be the number of exchange seats in private ownership. (some of these seats sell in the six figures and are therefore owned by some fairly successful private individuals) If you can get access to an exchange (perhaps as a clerk/runner), you will come to hear of some successful folks. I suspect you are interested in standout individual traders rather than what can be achieved with low costs, size advantages, infrastucture, technology, and the ability to read client order flow.

    Next would be anecdotal evidence from others who have had direct contact with information on successful traders. Do what you can to make sure this is reliable. On this board, we have a trader who posted recently about how he was involved on behalf of a broker arranging with an insurer specific insurance and benefits for a trader who had taken $100k to ~$30 million over ten or so years. There are some blotters in the "Trader P&L" threads but only a few of any consequence (ie large accounts who are obviously successful beyond the 'money I can afford to lose' amounts of the professional classes who try trading'). One in particular "Rearden Metal" had his six figure up days (stocks) verified by an executive at his prop firm. "NYSETrader123" has also put up some verifiable results trading futures.

    If you speak to any futures prop guys, you will probably hear that at their firm there was a ludicrously successful trader (or small group of traders) who kept to themselves and didn't really want to be bothered.

    Finally, one very successful trader I know who is in advancing years and has little family to speak of is seriously considering writing memoirs and having his accounts published after his death. He does not wish to attract unwanted attention during his lifetime but likes the thought of leaving some of his market results as a legacy to inspire other traders. As I understand part of the estate will benefit various charities so it should be straightforward to verify that this individual made his significant worth form the markets.

    Short answer: depends on your definition of successful and how prepared you are to look. Alternatively, you could become as big a success as your ability and effort will allow, and experience first hand whether consistent profitability can exist for you. Critical requirements: reliable trading plan, stable personality, self knowledge / self honesty and the pursuit of the truth.
     
    #11     Jan 13, 2012
  2. Just for giggles, my trades today.
     
    #12     Jan 13, 2012
  3. NoDoji

    NoDoji

    I've watched a few videos of traders from Pristine trading live at the trading expos. What I've seen in these videos is pure price action trading (which I'm pretty sure is what they teach in their courses).

    When I first saw some of their stuff I didn't really trust that style of trading, but I now trade that way and it's rock solid profitable.
     
    #13     Jan 13, 2012
  4. Very nice job man so smooth! Don't you find subscribers to be a pain in the ass?
     
    #14     Jan 13, 2012
  5. wrbtrader

    wrbtrader

    Have you heard of Youtube ?

    Some traders have posted live videos of real trading with the trader in the video (not just audio only) if that's what you meant when you said "in front of a camera". Yet, I don't know if these are profitable part-time traders, profitable hobbyist traders or profitable traders that trade for a living.

    Yet, seeing a few days of videos as such...what does that prove for you :confused:
     
    #15     Jan 13, 2012
  6. Those who can, quietly get on with it.....

    .............................................

    navel gaze as you sift thru all the crap at the front end of the curve.

    now find your niche.
    hone your edge.
    turn off the talking heads.
    work in a vacuum.
    put your head down and do it.

    period.

    cheers,

    s


    :cool:
     
    #16     Jan 13, 2012
  7. whred

    whred

    I saw that ACD thread when I was strictly lurking, but I never seriously read it. I googled "Mark Fisher ACD" and found a decent webpage that described the system. Interesting approach, I like that the pivot points are related to the ATR. I've been a fan of ATR-based approaches since reading Seykota and Van Tharp talk about it, though I have never been big on pivot points. I will have to go through the 100+ pages and see what I can learn. thanks!
     
    #17     Jan 13, 2012
  8. I did it. I was asked last spring to run a chat room for a trading firm which had 20-30 people in it, and did so for several months. I was paid a salary. I would speak on a headset microphone and have my voice broadcast through a web application, which let me select an area of my screen to share in real time with the chat room. I would always show my PNL, open positions, executions, and sometimes show my open orders. I would do this for 4 hours out of the trading day every single day. Regardless of which hours I chose to be live, I always let everyone see my end of day PNL. While I had some down days in this period, I was green at least 80% of the days.

    So I know for a fact that it's been done, since I did it.
     
    #18     Jan 13, 2012
  9. No offense, but hit-rate is meaningless.
     
    #19     Jan 13, 2012
  10. whred

    whred

    Ahh, I see you on C2. I usually look at the FX systems there, I actually joined this website to speed up my learning, so I can eventually create a system over there, lol. The last time I was interested in trading, there was a website called Clear Station that was like a mixture of ET and C2, and that was the place to be. I don't know if Baron's ET existed back then. This site seems pretty active, but I'm not sure I will have a thick enough skin to last long. I haven't actually joined C2 yet, but I will bookmark your system once I do.


     
    #20     Jan 13, 2012