Has It Occurred To You?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Saham, Apr 5, 2004.

  1. Saham



    Has it occurred to you that the Iraq war may be the religious version of the war fought in Vietnam, and, as such, that there may be no way to win simply because of the Iraq people's faiths, beliefs and religions, no matter how screwed up we may view them as being?

    "Shiites make up 60 percent of Iraq's 25 million people." [ http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=avddA80CpUHk&refer=us ].

    Are not these people governed/led by "radical clerics" a term coined by Paul Bremer?

  2. Saham


    Photo caption:

    "Oh my God, I shouldn't have eaten so many prunes for breakfast!"
  3. Saham


    Iraqis killed in US Apache air strike


    Yah know, I don't mean to sound even a tad bit contrary to our gov's plan to "pacify" Fulluja because I support my government's decisions 100%, but, let's say a foreign country came to your city and killed your wife, or your brother, your father or your child, or your mother or sister.....

    The stupidity of this is, we may be tapping into powerful primal emotions by continuously nailing (by accident of course) innocent civilians of Iraq.

    In other words, put yourself in the Iraqis' place.

    If I did, and foreign soldiers came to my city and killed OR WOUNDED my brother. Think how you would feel after you repeat these words:

    My father.

    My child.

    My mother.

    My wife.

    You know what I would do? Kill 'em back - end.

    You know why?

    Primal emotional response. All rationality would leave - I would want bloody revenge. I would give my life and die to kill the invading forces. And I am a very reasonable man. But I would totally lose it and not listen to reason because of the overwhelming and deep emotional powers I possess as a person.

    There's nothing more or less to that.

    The drive would be compounded if my perceived religious leader(s) told me to do that as well (seek revenge). Islam, at its core, is a religion of revenge.

    If this shit continues... we may very well end up pissing off an entire nation there in Iraq because invariably all of them are related, or friends, or friends of friends.

    And there is no war ever been fought yet like this, where the main principle(s) is revenge for killing a loved one (I mean on behalf of the Iraqis who are receiving fresh kills daily of their loved ones - and their strong urge for revenge).

    Even if it was WRONG to fight against the invading forces, I would just go berserk and try to kill as many occupying forces as I possibly could.

    What about you?

    The point is, in trying to win a war, are we creating a nightmare?

  4. The fight against communism was a pseudo religious war, waged by those fearful of the "Godless" communists. In fact, it was an economic war.

    What makes our system work in America, is because Christianity was twisted and perverted to justify capitalism and democracy.

    Christianity was founded at a time when there was no such government as a democracy.

    This country was not actually founded by the Pilgrims on a desire for a democracy, but a desire for religious freedom. Had the King of England allowed freedom of religion, things might have turned out differently. If King George had softened his position on taxation and allowed representation of the colonists things may have turned out much differently.

    So now we have evolved into this "Christian" country who spouses democracy and capitalism as being the best, and not only the best for us, but best for everyone else.

    We are on that mission, that crusade to convert others to our lifestyle, to free them from their religions that don't support our concepts of democracy and capitalism.

    It is fully self centered, self righteous and assumptive of course...but that is America, right?

    The fallacy however, is that we are not really concerned with the world, except as it impacts our ability to practice and fulfill our desire for capitalism.

    Our religion is used as a tool to support capitalism, and we attack other religions, or lack or religions that do not support capitalism.

    So, naturally a religion that supports the monarchy of the religious leaders over a society and dogmatism of laws to support those in dictatorial power on that basis is going to be an enemy of the United States of America.

  5. Saham


    "We are on that mission, that crusade to convert others to our lifestyle, to free them from their religions that don't support our concepts of democracy and capitalism."

    Well... at this point, I think that at least in our minds we are still trying to "convert" (or kill) only those who do not see being peaceable and civil as a good thing, to the ways of what we refer to as "freedom" and the end of the ways of death and killing.

    However, slaughtering their family members ("Whoops! Heh, another one bites the dust...") may not be the best thing to do, especially if the heart of this people is ROARING for revenge.

    America's stance is that we all want to live in a peaceful society by ridding out "the bad guys."

    But, every innocent family member that is wounded or killed by our troops may just be compounding negative impact on the Iraqis is all I am saying.
  6. The clusterfuck that is Iraq will not be the fist time America has demostrated the principle of reach exceeding grasp.

  7. I agree...but we are there now and our situation is a difficult one...Believe you me folks i was against this shit from The beginning ( God knows I took flack for it )..but nonetheless this is our position now...WHAT DO WE DO??? SOLUTIONS are what we need now and we need them fast...unfortunately we have soldiers being targeted day in and day out...and as ugly as this may sound our situation demands swift and very strong actions...Either strap it on Mr. president or bring em back..

    handing over the key is going to be chaotic to say the least...
  8. Strap it on?

    We will brute force them into democracy.

  9. Saham



    *ahem* ... Hey... is that a new term?

  10. fuck democracy for now...first we need to control the situation through "BRUTE FORCE" somehow ( i dont know how but im sure triple A can reccomend a way ) and then and only then can we move forward...if not just bring our boys back and let them at each other .....what do u propose? beisdes saying we shouldnt be there in the first place...
    #10     Apr 5, 2004