absolutely agree with this. but some people can overcome it, so starting with $1000 or $1M it really doesn't matter the size of the trades, it's the methodology and discipline in execution that defines profitablility. i've done it more times from $2000 for people that were good friends of mine and built up nice size portfolios for them to take larger risks on margin to where once they got above a certain profit number, they were comfortable to trade on their own based on the principles they'd learned from watching me. i've also blown out $5000 at a time, more times than i can count, but those were on hailmary trades where i could afford to lose it, and did. no big deal. it's not a contest. it's all just a stupid guessing game in the end.
sim trading teaches you the same principles and methods as real, in fact, moreso not having the distraction of the emotional stress of real money being lost. you can take risks and make decisions you would never make in live trading, which will temper your emotional ability to make those decisions in real trading. especially so beneficial if you use sim in parallel with live. you can verify your logic and adjust accordingly, and also track trades you were thinking about doing but didn't, especially the opposite trade which every trader knows bites them in the ass the second they hit buy.
I started my primary account with $1500. I blew it several times, not due to the amount (some would call it undercapitalized) but because I did not sim long enough. If you are trading futures, it is fully doable to earn a living from $5k. You won't get rich, because you're taking out your profits every month to live, but if your system is sustainable then you will be fine. Just pray the liquidity doesn't dry up or we're all out of a job and will have to either retire or move to the Asian markets. If you're a stock or option guy, I can't help you there, as I wouldn't touch this market with either of those.
Thank you for writing this. I am learning futures on simulator. I know of a trader who lost half his account when he first started. He went back on sim. A year later, he making a living trading 1 contract at a time. It is definitely possible with futures.
i totally agree. trading rocks. never wanted to do anything else in my life. i love it. every other job is a joke compared to what i make trading, always has. i would gladly set up an account with any number of existing prop firms to "prove" i can trade. but to whom, i am unclear, because in the final analysis, does anyone really give a flying fuck? because i sure don't.
The downside of all of this is that if you take a Training course you probably only get approximately a 50/50 profit split, which is steep for a beginner. The only time that you should be willing to give something like that up is if you're trading somewhere like first new york and they're bank rolling you with a 20 million dollar line. Taking 50% from a guy who just starts out trading makes it extremely difficult. I firmly stand by my belief that you should NEVER EVER PAY FOR TRAINING ANYWHERE AS A CONDITION OF JOINING A PROP SHOP. You should only put down money when it is counted as a risk deposit or initial deposit, any other type of capital you pay.... no matter what the firm says, you can be fired at anytime and lose it. If you're going to be trading your own money you should be taking atleast 90% home, for non-licensed guys the only legal way to trade prop is that the firm has to take a small piece, and to have your money credited in your account. If you go to a Keystone, Velez or any of these other firms that are talked about in these threads when scams are refered to, you will see that your starting balance after sinking 5K in your account is ZERO. I have never traded through any of these shops, but I challenge anyone who just started at any shop like this to show me an starting balance with 5k in it. Infact I'd be shocked if anyone could show me a starting balance above zero. I GUARANTEE YOU THAT YOUR STARTING BALANCE IN YOUR DAILY REPORT WILL BE ZERO, even after you just handed a 5K check over. That means you have waived your right to your own money and only paid for training. Firms can now limit you as they see fit b/c in theory you only paid for training. I would like for some people who work at some of these firms to reply and tell me if when you started your account had a zero balance or whether it showed the money you paid in it. If it doesn't have a positive balance and is not a Chicago member then the shop is behaving in a way that the SEC is opposed to.... this is the very reason that they have to mask your deposit as a traing fee. I would like to hear from some guys who work at one of these shops. And other posters PLEASE DO NOT ATTACK THESE PEOPLE AS THEY'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG..... THIS IS A DISCUSSION, NOT A PLACE TO RIP APART GUYS WHO ARE TRYING TO LEARN IN THIS BUSINESS. SO LET'S KEEP THIS AN IMFORMATIVE DISCUSSION AND NOT A FIGHT.