Handling your family and social life as a trader

failed_trad3r · Dec 29, 2009

Quote from retaildaytrader:

I can tell some of the people who have written in this thread are still very young and inexperienced in life.

Here are a few good examples. The 19 year old guy who believes that he knows more about the market and economy then the older people in his family.

The simple truth is that most people at one time in their life have been in the stock market and experienced the economy in one form or the other. Lets take a 50 year old man. Do you not think the 50 year old had money in the stock market in some form since the 70s? Do you not think he still does have money in the stock market? Maybe he trades actively? Most people do not openly talk about their finances or what they do with their money.

In another reply, the poster goes on to suggest that his family was snickering at him. The reason why they were snickering at him was not to make fun of him, but because they too were involved in the market at one time. They probably had some outrageous gains during the tech bubble and then it crashed down one day leaving them broke. They were laughing because they know how the market works more then the poster.

Then another poster suggests that people who go to real jobs on a daily basis are something lesser then him because they are not making a living trading. The original poster suggests that many people would die to trade for a living.

You see. The market is more or less a game of chance where you take guesses on the movement of a certain instrument and throw your money down behind it. It is essentially the largest casino on the planet with countless active gamblers. There are some people out there that do not want to live their lives in a casino and enjoy the routine predictable life of a daily job. I would not laugh at them, in fact, I would laugh at the active trader. The mail-man who delivers your mail is not an underpaid civil servant. In fact, from reading different news stories, it appears many of them make a nice living. His day is very predictable and he gets to interact socially with a great many people. At some point in his life, he can retire with a check coming to him every month and paid benefits. You can't possibly make fun of that guy because he does not have to worry about getting it right or drawdown. He simply does his job and lives his life without worry.

Another thing is the concept of happiness itself. Most people on this board and thread associate making money with being happy. This is how a younger person thinks. The fact of the matter is that there is a great many people out there who are blind, can't walk and have serious medical problems. Some people pass away early in life. Tonight, there are tens of thousands of veterans from the various military operations around the world who are going to bed with a serious handicap whether it be mental or physical. Many of these people were very healthy at one time and could probably outpace you in a race and at the gym, but now is a different time where they struggle.

The point I am making is to be happy that you have your health. If you can run 50 meters without effort, have both arms and feel energetic then just be happy with that. Be happy that you have your freedom. You are not in jail, you are not homeless or struggling in some 3rd world country.

In regards to dealing with people and explaining something as simple as trading. That is truly a joke of a question. Its not like you are explaining something really bad to anyone. Are you explaining to them that you have a disease? No. Just relax and be yourself. If you dont know how to handle simple social situations like this, then see a psychologist. There is no shame in seeing one.

Remember that you do not have much quality time in life. In your 20s, you will have a lot of physical energy. After your 20s, you will still have that energy, but it will fade as you grow older and things will change. The point I am making is that you have to do what makes you happy. If you are doing something just for money, then you are wasting your time.

You would not trade away a few years of your life for a briefcase of cash would you? I wouldn't...

Finally, if you are up big in the market and feel very confident in your abilities then there is only one thing that you can do and that is to quit while you are ahead. The simple fact is that everyone blows an account at one point in their life. Many do not wish to admit it. Others who have not blown an account probably will at some point in time. The best risk management plan is simply not to trade. You might have made bank from March until now, but 2010 is anyone's guess. The best way to keep the chips you won in the poker game is to call it a night and head up to the hotel room. If you keep going all night then you will blow that pot.
More...

+1

Often younger people think elderly are stupid. No, they have more experience. As if the elderly have never experimented with their money. They we're young once too you know.

Indeed, most aspiring "elite traders" think money is the source of happiness. I can assure you it's not. It will not make you popular any more, or grant you the ability to make real friends. That you have to do with yourself and your own personality. I think most people in 20's don't realize when their 30 their parents are already elderly, or retired. And retired people get alot of heart attacks. They have to fend for their own in only 10 years. 10 years is a short amount of time to waste watching a light bulb every day for 10 years, while you have the best health you will ever have.

r4Nd.m · Dec 29, 2009

LOL

You determine your own relationship with the market you choose to trade. whether it's stocks, bonds, futures or leveraged forex. If you decide the 'market' is a big casino, everyone making money is lucky & should quit while they're ahead, then that is what it is to you. But that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.

drcha · Dec 29, 2009

Lots of people ask me how to trade. They usually say something along the lines of "can you show me"--as if they could drop by on a Saturday afternoon for a cup of coffee, sit in front of my computer and learn what to do in an hour or two.

I tell them I would love to show them (and I would), but that it's not a weekend avocation--more like a part time job. I tell them that I can definitely tell them what to read. Of dozens who have asked me, only one person has ever responded by asking for my actual book recommendations, and I never heard any more from him about it.

They don't want to do any work.

So, is the biggest stumbling block for people simple laziness? I don't know. I question whether, if those people actually put the time and effort in, they would get anywhere, because of the mental piece--the fact that losses are part of trading and are routinely taken, accepted, and forgotten. Most people cannot stand losing; it makes them want to give up whatever it is they are losing at. It makes them feel like a failure. Trading, in which you're a failure if you don't take losses, is opposite to most people's thinking.

Maybe it goes hand in hand with believing in yourself--I don't think that most people believe in themselves.

Jesus · Dec 29, 2009

Quote from retaildaytrader:

I can tell some of the people who have written in this thread are still very young and inexperienced in life.

Here are a few good examples. The 19 year old guy who believes that he knows more about the market and economy then the older people in his family.

The simple truth is that most people at one time in their life have been in the stock market and experienced the economy in one form or the other. Lets take a 50 year old man. Do you not think the 50 year old had money in the stock market in some form since the 70s? Do you not think he still does have money in the stock market? Maybe he trades actively? Most people do not openly talk about their finances or what they do with their money.

In another reply, the poster goes on to suggest that his family was snickering at him. The reason why they were snickering at him was not to make fun of him, but because they too were involved in the market at one time. They probably had some outrageous gains during the tech bubble and then it crashed down one day leaving them broke. They were laughing because they know how the market works more then the poster.

Then another poster suggests that people who go to real jobs on a daily basis are something lesser then him because they are not making a living trading. The original poster suggests that many people would die to trade for a living.

You see. The market is more or less a game of chance where you take guesses on the movement of a certain instrument and throw your money down behind it. It is essentially the largest casino on the planet with countless active gamblers. There are some people out there that do not want to live their lives in a casino and enjoy the routine predictable life of a daily job. I would not laugh at them, in fact, I would laugh at the active trader. The mail-man who delivers your mail is not an underpaid civil servant. In fact, from reading different news stories, it appears many of them make a nice living. His day is very predictable and he gets to interact socially with a great many people. At some point in his life, he can retire with a check coming to him every month and paid benefits. You can't possibly make fun of that guy because he does not have to worry about getting it right or drawdown. He simply does his job and lives his life without worry.

Another thing is the concept of happiness itself. Most people on this board and thread associate making money with being happy. This is how a younger person thinks. The fact of the matter is that there is a great many people out there who are blind, can't walk and have serious medical problems. Some people pass away early in life. Tonight, there are tens of thousands of veterans from the various military operations around the world who are going to bed with a serious handicap whether it be mental or physical. Many of these people were very healthy at one time and could probably outpace you in a race and at the gym, but now is a different time where they struggle.

The point I am making is to be happy that you have your health. If you can run 50 meters without effort, have both arms and feel energetic then just be happy with that. Be happy that you have your freedom. You are not in jail, you are not homeless or struggling in some 3rd world country.

In regards to dealing with people and explaining something as simple as trading. That is truly a joke of a question. Its not like you are explaining something really bad to anyone. Are you explaining to them that you have a disease? No. Just relax and be yourself. If you dont know how to handle simple social situations like this, then see a psychologist. There is no shame in seeing one.

Remember that you do not have much quality time in life. In your 20s, you will have a lot of physical energy. After your 20s, you will still have that energy, but it will fade as you grow older and things will change. The point I am making is that you have to do what makes you happy. If you are doing something just for money, then you are wasting your time.

You would not trade away a few years of your life for a briefcase of cash would you? I wouldn't...

Finally, if you are up big in the market and feel very confident in your abilities then there is only one thing that you can do and that is to quit while you are ahead. The simple fact is that everyone blows an account at one point in their life. Many do not wish to admit it. Others who have not blown an account probably will at some point in time. The best risk management plan is simply not to trade. You might have made bank from March until now, but 2010 is anyone's guess. The best way to keep the chips you won in the poker game is to call it a night and head up to the hotel room. If you keep going all night then you will blow that pot.
More...

Probably the best post I've ever seen in an internet forum.

The stock market is just that, a market for stocks, stocks being businesses. When you do anything but treat stocks as businesses, you are gambling. The only way to win at this gambling is to get lucky or somehow put the odds greatly in your favor (much harder than it sounds). Even if you get lucky or put the odds in your favor, a string of random losses can do even great traders in. It really cracks me up how some of traders heroes were often depressed and lived poor lives. Think Jesse Livermore. Some guys think he was god and yet he lost almost every dime he ever made and then KILLED HIMSELF. Some life. I'll take mailman over that any day.

And then some traders or wall street "professionals" look down on average Americans. Yet if you could somehow do a survey of people's happiness and self fulfillment, I'm sure traders would be in the bottom percentile.

This poster is absolutely correct when he says,

"In another reply, the poster goes on to suggest that his family was snickering at him. The reason why they were snickering at him was not to make fun of him, but because they too were involved in the market at one time. They probably had some outrageous gains during the tech bubble and then it crashed down one day leaving them broke. They were laughing because they know how the market works more then the poster."

This is so true. Everybody knows the majority of traders lose money. Some people even scream 99% of day traders lose money. This is why your family is snickering. If most people lose money, why wouldn't you.

And yet the vast majority of people on this forum and "young guns" who try trading are sure they can make money.

So... the majority of traders believe full heartedly that they will make money, and the majority of traders lose money.

Again, thats why people snicker.

But day after day, year after year, hoards of people will try to trade even though they know the numbers are seriously stacked against them.

illiquid · Dec 29, 2009

Quote from retaildaytrader:

I can tell some of the people who have written in this thread are still very young and inexperienced in life.

Here are a few good examples. The 19 year old guy who believes that he knows more about the market and economy then the older people in his family.

The simple truth is that most people at one time in their life have been in the stock market and experienced the economy in one form or the other. Lets take a 50 year old man. Do you not think the 50 year old had money in the stock market in some form since the 70s? Do you not think he still does have money in the stock market? Maybe he trades actively? Most people do not openly talk about their finances or what they do with their money.

In another reply, the poster goes on to suggest that his family was snickering at him. The reason why they were snickering at him was not to make fun of him, but because they too were involved in the market at one time. They probably had some outrageous gains during the tech bubble and then it crashed down one day leaving them broke. They were laughing because they know how the market works more then the poster.

Then another poster suggests that people who go to real jobs on a daily basis are something lesser then him because they are not making a living trading. The original poster suggests that many people would die to trade for a living.

You see. The market is more or less a game of chance where you take guesses on the movement of a certain instrument and throw your money down behind it. It is essentially the largest casino on the planet with countless active gamblers. There are some people out there that do not want to live their lives in a casino and enjoy the routine predictable life of a daily job. I would not laugh at them, in fact, I would laugh at the active trader. The mail-man who delivers your mail is not an underpaid civil servant. In fact, from reading different news stories, it appears many of them make a nice living. His day is very predictable and he gets to interact socially with a great many people. At some point in his life, he can retire with a check coming to him every month and paid benefits. You can't possibly make fun of that guy because he does not have to worry about getting it right or drawdown. He simply does his job and lives his life without worry.

Another thing is the concept of happiness itself. Most people on this board and thread associate making money with being happy. This is how a younger person thinks. The fact of the matter is that there is a great many people out there who are blind, can't walk and have serious medical problems. Some people pass away early in life. Tonight, there are tens of thousands of veterans from the various military operations around the world who are going to bed with a serious handicap whether it be mental or physical. Many of these people were very healthy at one time and could probably outpace you in a race and at the gym, but now is a different time where they struggle.

The point I am making is to be happy that you have your health. If you can run 50 meters without effort, have both arms and feel energetic then just be happy with that. Be happy that you have your freedom. You are not in jail, you are not homeless or struggling in some 3rd world country.

In regards to dealing with people and explaining something as simple as trading. That is truly a joke of a question. Its not like you are explaining something really bad to anyone. Are you explaining to them that you have a disease? No. Just relax and be yourself. If you dont know how to handle simple social situations like this, then see a psychologist. There is no shame in seeing one.

Remember that you do not have much quality time in life. In your 20s, you will have a lot of physical energy. After your 20s, you will still have that energy, but it will fade as you grow older and things will change. The point I am making is that you have to do what makes you happy. If you are doing something just for money, then you are wasting your time.

You would not trade away a few years of your life for a briefcase of cash would you? I wouldn't...

Finally, if you are up big in the market and feel very confident in your abilities then there is only one thing that you can do and that is to quit while you are ahead. The simple fact is that everyone blows an account at one point in their life. Many do not wish to admit it. Others who have not blown an account probably will at some point in time. The best risk management plan is simply not to trade. You might have made bank from March until now, but 2010 is anyone's guess. The best way to keep the chips you won in the poker game is to call it a night and head up to the hotel room. If you keep going all night then you will blow that pot.
More...

wtf?

If you know enough to know you don't know what you're doing, then maybe perhaps you would "quit while you're ahead". But only a very small number of traders would ever arrive at such a realization. And the irony is, it's these very same traders who probably have that certain honest introspection required to actually succeed in the long run. Isn't this the market in a nutshell?

southbeach4me · Dec 30, 2009

Quote from crgarcia:

Most don't.
There are no profitable short term traders, trading from home.

There can be some retired traders, getting decent (5-20%) returns from long term trading.
More...

Here we go again..........

Lethn · Dec 30, 2009

I am so going to post a trading journal just to shut retards like that up >_<

If people don't make money in trading then why the hell is it so popular and has been used for centuries as a source of income?

failed_trad3r · Dec 30, 2009

Quote from Lethn:

I am so going to post a trading journal just to shut retards like that up >_<

If people don't make money in trading then why the hell is it so popular and has been used for centuries as a source of income?
More...

I am so going to post a trading journal just to shut retards like that up >_<"
Are you still in puberty?
The people around you don't care about that you make money through trading. Starting a journal to prove something to somebody else doesn't make sense, yet you don't realize it yet.

Trading isn't glamorous or anything. It's just a job, and not persÃ© the best job in the world. You don't have colleagues, you don't have a resumÃ©, the only gratification is tons of money. That's a fact. People who say I breathe trading and I love making systems to extract money from the market in their heart deep down they realize it too. I realize that alot of jobs in the world are like this, but trading is a tad worse.

achilles28 · Dec 30, 2009

Quote from Raje:

A question to traders out there that trade their own account from home...full time...successfully...for a living.

Other than being a loner and a hermit...how to you handle this socially...and/or with extended family?

I mean, trading successfully is the life a lot of people would love to have, and if they know you do it, do friends and family hound you to teach them how? Maybe this is not really a problem, but if it is, how do you deal with it?
More...

I tell people straight up, nobody gets rich off my labor.

In reality, there are no secrets. But that doesn't mean traders make a habit out of parsimony.

Most people don't understand the amount of time it takes to become really successful. Me? 7 years. Would you give 7 years of your labor away?

When asked about the market, I talk in generalities. Why it moves. Who's on the other side. Basic principles. Not specific, how to's.

As far as the market being one big casino. An even gamble, either way. That's a red flag that the author can't trade. Look at his supporters - Failed Trader. There are no guarantees in the market. But there are good bets with outcomes that far exceed 50%. The answer lies in price action. All the best.

failed_trad3r · Dec 30, 2009

Quote from achilles28:

I tell people straight up, nobody gets rich off my labor.

In reality, there are no secrets. But that doesn't mean traders make a habit out of parsimony.

Most people don't understand the amount of time it takes to become really successful. Me? 7 years. Would you give 7 years of your labor away?

When asked about the market, I talk in generalities. Why it moves. Who's on the other side. Basic principles. Not specific, how to's.

As far as the market being one big casino. An even gamble, either way. That's a red flag that the author can't trade. Look at his supporters - Failed Trader. There are no guarantees in the market. But there are good bets with outcomes that far exceed 50%. The answer lies in price action. All the best.
More...

Essentially the market is a casino. The average participant is entering a zero-sum game.
There are indeed good bets and you have to search hard to find them. But that's not the point of retaildaytrader's point (imo). You are saying you would spend 7 years to find that bet.
The analogy is like finding a flaw in for example a lottery program, and being able to precisely know the winning numbers for next week. If you spent 7 years searching for this flaw and finally found it, would this make you happy?

"Most people don't understand the amount of time it takes to become really successful."
The concept of becoming truly successfull is another point of debate. What determines if you've truly become successfull?
I think the first sentence you wrote is the best definition of your source of happiness, independence.That may not be the main source of happiness for everybody.