You get absolutely no comparison. Go read Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations for some perspective on the "big picture". The majority of violent conflicts around the world are between Muslims and non-Muslims, or between Muslims and Muslims. "Wherever one looks along the perimeter of Islam, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors... Muslims make up about one-fifth of the world's population but in the 1990s they have been far more involved in intergroup violence than the people of any other civilization." Plenty of data to back up those assertations, if you want to argue. (Disclaimer: I'm neither a Jew nor a Muslim.)
i know. but how destroy islam without destroying muslims (how much muslims in the world ? 1 billion ??). this is not a religious problem, its a POLITICAL dispute between 2 peoples. they re fighting each other to know how they should share the land they BOTH deserve to live on. i dont give a f..k about islam, jews or christians. these religions just come upon the problem to spice it up. political extremist islam + desperate political situation = terrorism. you can remove the islam for the equation but im not sure that will make the situation fair for everybody, but is this what everybody is looking for : a just solution for everybody ?
i know Huntington and his biased data. first, this guy dunno nothing about CIVILIZATION, he's just good at crunching some data to give credit to his weak theories. But it seems a lot are buying in, maybe it will self-fullfill. second, if you choose another criteria to see what "civilizations" show more "wrong doings" than others, replace the number of conflicts with the actual devastation (casualties, etc) of wars waged by christians during past century. /my2cents off
Ok, I'm glad you're able to accept logic when your mistakes are corrected. First off, look at the situation of the one million 'Israeli Arabs'...Arabs with full Israeli citizenship. They enjoy a higher standard of living and more extensive personal freedoms than the average man or woman in any Arab country...this despite their frequent involvement in aiding terrorists who strike Israel. So clearly Israel is not the genocidal monster you've imagined her to be. As for the so called 'Palestinian people' (Actually, a 20th century invention, and not a seperate part of the wider Arab world.) Until they started the Intifada in 1987, they too had far more wealth and political freedoms than the average Arab man or woman in any Arab controlled country. This philosophy of violence has clearly gotten them nowhere. Israel's philosophy of peace from Rabin in 1992 through Barak in 2000 got Israel nowhere either....hence the need for the current measures. The Pals brought all this on themselves.
The following is usually attributed to comedian Dennis Miller, although written by someone else: "A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need. Don't thank me. I'm a giver. Here we go: The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation." So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: Adjacent Jew- Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel. Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something. It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one. Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding. My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death. Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations coming up against Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away. However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint. If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan. (Hey, wait a minute, that's actually not such a bad id.. ..... ooh, that is, what a horrible thought, yeah, horrible.)"
whats the point with arab israelis ? good for them. you know sometimes people want a government of their own even if that mean lower standards of living. everything isn't about money, nah ? I never told that Israel is genocidal, but many HERE are obviously okay with an ethnic cleansing. situation pre-1987: thounsands of palestinians living in refugee camps for decades is what you call a good situation ? denial of the Palestinian people is the first step to ethnic cleansing: if there is no such thing as a "palestinian" so why bother, cleanse, cleanse, cleanse. all of them are egyptian or jordan. its quite simple, in 1948 when Israel was created there was no one there... and for philosphy of peace, new settlements never stopped during thes blessed years of peace philosophy... i m sure you have a lot of good arguments about Israel/Palestine, but please try to be fair intellectually. I support the existence and the prosperity of Israel, but cannot accept their policy towards palestinians. /end of my 2 cents for sure.
What Ariel Sharon Said ..At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward Peres, saying "every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/10/Sharon3.html Who's your daddy??? I guess we must vote Sharon in office, forget Bush/Kerry Makes sense... BTW, why is this thread in the trading forum??????
Notice I said nothing about Christians. But for the most part Christendom appears to have grown up. In contrast, the Muslim world appears to still be going through a difficult adolescence and making everyone else's lives miserable in the process. I think Huntington's observations are accurate. An unbiased person can find justifications for the Muslim side in many of these individual conflicts, but when you look at the worldwide pattern, it's like looking at a sullen teenager who picks fights with everyone he comes in contact with, and offers excuses for each incident. At some point you have to tell the kid firmly that he's the one with the problem.
i hope too for a "grown up" attitude of the muslims/arabs. just use tanks/satellites/jets/missiles/media control/low warfare/bribing. they are the moderns means of power. suicide bombing is just unsexy. PS: what i critisize in Huntington its the sorting by religion or civilization. maybe the occurrence of these conflicts is a consequence of another desequilibriums than "mature civs/immature civs". maybe its just "not so screwed/badly screwed". talking 'bout paying for others mistakes, western anti-semitism ended up in jewish extermination, let the arabs pay of course...
For the same reason that the "Terrorist attack in Madrid, Spain! Heads up!" thread was in Trading initially - both started as a "heads up" alert on a breaking news story that had potential to affect the markets. And then of course devolved into side issues.