Great Barrington Declaration

Discussion in 'Politics' started by apdxyk, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Ricter

    Ricter

    As a shield against certain particles, not radiation. In short, it's useless as a shield re global warming.
     
    #171     Oct 21, 2020
  2. jem

    jem

    A shield against warming....

    Note as you add Co2 to the atmosphere its ability to warm decreases logarithmically. So at some point additional co2 may be more a shield than a blanket.


    https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2012/22mar_saber/


    Mlynczak is the associate principal investigator for the SABER instrument onboard NASA’s TIMED satellite. SABER monitors infrared emissions from Earth’s upper atmosphere, in particular from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances that play a key role in the energy balance of air hundreds of km above our planet’s surface.

    “Carbon dioxide and nitric oxide are natural thermostats,” explains James Russell of Hampton University, SABER’s principal investigator. “When the upper atmosphere (or ‘thermosphere’) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.”

    That’s what happened on March 8th when a coronal mass ejection (CME) propelled in our direction by an X5-class solar flare hit Earth’s magnetic field. (On the “Richter Scale of Solar Flares,” X-class flares are the most powerful kind.) Energetic particles rained down on the upper atmosphere, depositing their energy where they hit. The action produced spectacular auroras around the poles and significant1 upper atmospheric heating all around the globe.

    “The thermosphere lit up like a Christmas tree,” says Russell. “It began to glow intensely at infrared wavelengths as the thermostat effect kicked in.”

    For the three day period, March 8th through 10th, the thermosphere absorbed 26 billion kWh of energy. Infrared radiation from CO2 and NO, the two most efficient coolants in the thermosphere, re-radiated 95% of that total back into space.
     
    #172     Oct 21, 2020
  3. piezoe

    piezoe

    Let us come to our senses. Here, the only thing that counts are epidemiologists opinions, not M.D.s in general, certainly not media opinion pieces, and certainly not general public opinion coming from those such as myself.*

    We have one constraint. Like some third world countries, we are presently incapable of national mandatory directives concerning Covid-mitigation-efforts. This will seriously limit the epidemiologists' choices. They will have to chose something that can be applied piecemeal with 50 variations subject to modification by 50 governors, who if they are in red states are probably business men, and if in blue states maybe lawyers, but probably most of them have college degrees, as long as you count a business degree as a college degree. It's going to be a difficult problem for any epidemiologist. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

    Here is what some epidemiologists recommend, which made a lot of sense until we recognized its success would have required coordination on a national level, and mandatory directives. They are telling us that if everyone wore a mask when in public, and we had rapid testing, contact tracing and quarantining, we could go back to business as usual in a matter of weeks not months -- ~8 weeks. The main businesses that would have to shut down temporarily would be those that can't operate without masks and social distancing -- e.g., restaurants, bars -- or highly risky situations even with masks, like high density crowds at political rallies, with masks all worn below the nose and everyone shouting "Lock her UP!!".

    But none of this matters, because the U.S. lacks mandatory national directives. We are therefore stuck with Covid-19 for a long time -- most likely at least until the second or third quarter next year, assuming a vaccine becomes widely available by then. In the meantime, let's throw our pathetic selves at the mercy of the epidemiologists, and see if they can come up with something beyond just go ahead, do what you do, and hope you're still standing in the end.

    Alternatively we could spin the bottle and ask whoever it points to to please tell us what to do. Oh look it is pointing at a retired neurologist, with strong right-wing political views. Oh, that's perfect!
     
    #173     Oct 21, 2020
  4. jem

    jem

    Thank God... for the founders who made sure the Federal Govt did not have ever power over every aspect of our lives.


    Thankfully... the U.S. Constitution delegates Police Powers to the states, which in genral includes healthy and safety because our founders realized that a virus might impact New York City differently than Maine.

    Thankfully, if we don't want have our children locked out of schools... we could move to a state that balance the overall health and safety and children differently that Gavin Newsom does.

    Imagine if we did not have a choice to move and we were told... that we had to shelter in place for months by say President Newsom the next time a flu hits us that kills old and sick but not so much the young and healthy. Or.. Imagine if Trump got to dictate the response to you.

    You will be thanking the Founders too.





     
    #174     Oct 21, 2020
  5. piezoe

    piezoe

    Well I can get a flu shot. I am worried about the flu I can't get a shot for. That one kills thirty times as many as die from the other. It makes one out of five young, healthy adults extremely ill, and some of them die. Those that don't sometime develop debilitating ailments as a result of their Covid infection. Sounds pretty horrible to me.
     
    #175     Oct 21, 2020
  6. Ricter

    Ricter

    If the CO2 and NO in the thermosphere (where we don't live, btw) blocked the radiation that warms the ground, it would be dark down here.
     
    #176     Oct 21, 2020
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  7. Bugenhagen

    Bugenhagen

    Can we lock Jem in a car to test how glass also acts as a shield?

    I think sometimes science needs to be fun too.

    Jem lacks the mind to understand radiative forcing. He is a magical thinker.
     
    #177     Oct 21, 2020
    Ricter likes this.
  8. Ricter

    Ricter

    You're right.

    And we haven't even started on the "your science jem science" discussion that starts with his "life cannot come from non-life".
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
    #178     Oct 21, 2020
    Bugenhagen likes this.
  9. jem

    jem

    The shot you take only works on average 40 percent of the time.

    With respect to kids...you are going to have to link to that. Because statistically speaking the flu is worse for kids than Covid.

    Hospitalization rate 39.2 per 100,000 vs 6 per hundred thousand...

    https://khn.org/news/desantis-says-covid-is-a-lower-risk-for-school-aged-kids-than-flu/

    “The risk of complications for healthy children is higher for flu compared to COVID-19,” according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. “However, infants and children with underlying medical conditions are at increased risk for both flu and COVID-19.”

    The CDC estimates there were 480 deaths among U.S. children due to flu in the 2018-19 season, including 136 cases in which the virus was confirmed by laboratory testing.

    As of mid-August, 90 children died of COVID-19 in the United States, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics.

    More than 46,000 children were hospitalized for flu in that 2018-19 period. The hospitalization rate among children 5 to 17 was 39.2 children per 100,000 children.

    The hospitalization rate for COVID-19 is six per 100,000 children for those ages 5 to 17, according to the CDC.




     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2020
    #179     Oct 21, 2020
  10. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    You need to be careful about the statement "It makes one out of five young, healthy adults extremely ill and some of them die."

    Healthy adults rarely die from COVID. Healthy adults rarely die from the flu.

    Sure, you can get a flu vaccine - and you hope you got the right one. People still die from the flu.
     
    #180     Oct 22, 2020