Got my butt handed to me today on ES live

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by mropp, Sep 7, 2007.

  1. mropp


    Ok, maybe someone can offer some insight on today to see if I need to go back to the drawing board or if today was just a rough water to navigate...

    I am pretty successful with day trading stocks. In fact, I'm not sure why I am drawn to index futures given the disparity between my performance with equities and eminis.

    I have spent months diligently studying the threads regarding emini strategy, primarily the PA threads from Stealth, Anekdoten, and others. I spent lots and lots of time in paper trade on ES (I use IB and NT) with satisfactory results to warrant live trading.

    Welp, today kicked my butt, -$1.8k with a variety 1, 2 and 3 contract stepping strategies.

    It seemed to me there was lots of chop and volatility, and after I was seeing my stops get hit so often, I should have probably decided today wasn't my day and stuck with stocks and write a couple options instead. Every trade I was on the wrong side of. I was flipping coins just to see if it was bad logic. I've really come to the conclusion either:
    This was not a easy session in total
    Sim is so different from live that it does nothing but familiarize you with the software
    Eminis are gamed to high hell by the strong hands (at least in certain situations) and I need to worry about locating the flow of smart money and worry about nothing else. Every setup I took seemed like it was nothing by headfake or a shake, as it contradicted the SPX and buying pressures.

    So was today just a tricky day on ES or did I just screw the pooch by chance, or is real time sim basically preparation to get railed in the live trade? I was trading totally without motion, in fact I am not phased one bit by the loss, win some, lose some, hopefully just win more. I'm going back to equities exclusively until I find out what went wrong.
  2. GaryN


    The best traders in the world are trading ES. Most of them have a hell of lot more money to play with than we do. Look how often the typical setup entries used by the little people get faded. The only time Im comfortable is in a strong trend up or down. Most days the mornings are all I will play. Making new lows in the afternoon is playable too.
  3. scurvy


    ES was easier than ER2 today from a breakdown/breakout standpoint. ER2 was acting strongly -- ES would dive to new lows and ER2 would begrudgingly drop a few ticks but nothing major. It's usually the other way around.

    Still, today wasn't particularly choppy or difficult. There were some periods of chop, but you have to learn how to recognize those periods and sit on your hands until a trend emerges (or scalp the chop).
  4. if you think ES is hard, take a look at HSI(hong kong futures), its trading pattern is very inefficient.
  5. It is because you are trying to make fast money. There are no shortcuts. Eminis give you huge amounts of leverage, so you can win or lose a lot in a short amount of time with little money down. But leverage is a double edged sword. Going back to trading equities will feel like child's play, but individual stocks are definitely more gameable than index futures. However, index futures in volatile time periods are more easily gamed, like the period you saw in August. But during quiet periods, you will get chopped up by professional scalpers and futures traders.
  6. WinSum


    If you describe what you are doing successfully in daytrading stocks, then maybe an ES trader can offer some critique on which part of your stock trading strategy you can carry over to trading ES and which part won't apply when it comes to trading ES.

    For example, if you are a rebate trader on stocks, then that strategy won't be applicable to trading ES.
  7. Are you able to trade SPY profitably ?
  8. jbarnby


    1-2-3 pt channels work well for me
  9. Sanjuro


    Wow, did you short every red arrow and buy every green arrow and capture 3x ATR today?

    Nice job!

  10. jbarnby


    LOL....nope, if I was that good I'd be retired by now. But I was up by a few points.
    #10     Sep 7, 2007