Goodbye American Production (and Maybe Innovation, Too)

Discussion in 'Economics' started by ByLoSellHi, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. I don't there's a phrase called competitive advantage in economics, it's comparative advantage. Which says that if a nation has relative efficiency in producing a particular good/service than trading with it will be a benefit for any country to do so.

    What happened in the meantime? I don't know. Lots of things.
     
    #21     Dec 27, 2006
  2. You "dont" there's a phrase?
    Hey, different countries, same meaning, i wasnt trying to nitpick except on the actual alleged basis of the concept.
    And it's bollock's.
     
    #22     Dec 27, 2006
  3. I see little if anything to suggest that the high-value added part of manufacturing comes from China. China supplies labour and not much else. Most of the machine tools and the electronic components used to make this stuff comes from Japan, while most of the semiconductors come from the US or Europe.

    It's interesting that while everybody is still talking about China, over the past 3 years I have seen a noticeable shift away from further manufacturing investment in China and towards Vietnam because the labour is cheaper than China and because it diversifies the country risk. Wonder that means for China in 5-10 years...

    Anyway, it seems that the core issue in this thread here has been done to death a thousand times and is not unique to the US by any means. The long-term trend for manufacturing as a percent of GDP has been to decline for all the major economies. In most cases the figure is 12-18%. Manufacturing just isn't that important these days.

    Suss
     
    #23     Dec 27, 2006

  4. "Mr. Tonelson, using the same data and the same methodology as Mr. Zandi, but delving into individual industries, finds that the United States is importing more than 50 percent — and in some cases close to 90 percent — of the machine tools used in this country, the aircraft engines and engine parts, the parts that go into cars and trucks, the industrial valves, the printed circuits, the optical instruments and lenses, the telephone switching apparatus, the machines that mold plastics, the broadcasting equipment used for radio, television and wireless transmissions. The list goes on.

    “It is hard to imagine,” Mr. Tonelson said, “how an international economy can remain successful if it jettisons its most technologically advanced components.”"
     
    #24     Dec 27, 2006
  5. bluud

    bluud

    Would a well educated indian or chinese or whatever want (in reality desperately) to come to the States to live and work here, or would an educated US citizen want to give up life in the US and go to china or india or what the fuck have you?

    Why?

    Do you think that will change in 10 years, how about 100 years or even 1000 years?

    [actually as time goes by they become more desperate, and no we do not need slaves here we already have enough, specially ones with illegal residence status and you guess the rest]

    US and it's economy is backed by it's military strength, name a second country with such military power, the military strength of a country defines it's stability, a stable counrty is the interest of all true investors.

    US will always stay the world power, unless such a thing as free-energy or at least close to free-energy is discovered. Free-energy it just means so much, it means equal power and capability for everyone, it means xom is nothing, and bla bla bla.
     
    #25     Dec 27, 2006
  6. bellman

    bellman

    Very true, the problem is as dorks and nerds have become increasingly mainstream, they aren't as intellectually relevant as they used to be. Intent to appeal to the masses is dummifying our dorks and nerds.

     
    #26     Dec 27, 2006
  7. You are WRONG, the quality aspect has affected almost everything, from programming work, graphics work, accounting, IB, call centers, etc. The fact is that the consumer/client does not really have a choice. The ones making the decisions to offshore are not the ones who then have to use the end product/service. Do you really think that when it comes to India IT offshoring that the end clients/users have not raised serious concerns? I bet you all do not even realize how badly the statistics behind these offshored operations have been rigged. Come on now, COOs do not admit mistakes, only cover them up.
    From my experience with India offshoring, it's just very obvious that their skill level is not up to par. It really isn't, sorry, but their college degrees simply do not give them the level of expertise needed to take away US jobs. They have serious shortfalls in experience or even exposure. Straightforward tasks are great for them, but the bulk of IT work is not so straighforward.

    As for products, what choice do you really have when the Brand names are being slapped on cheap products from China. According to the corporations, it's still the "fill_in_brand_name" product. They are cheap products from cheap labor. Now the manufacturing process can be highly controlled, but still, you can even compare something like a cutting knife of the same model from China vs Spain at BB&B. It's not even close, even the warranty reflects it.

    They call it a sweatshop for a reason.

    It's cheaper labor, that's all, at the expense of the consumer/client. The direct benefactors are those making the decisions, after all, their bonuses are based on the money they "save".
     
    #27     Dec 27, 2006
  8. It's funny you mention this, I have a buddy who has family from Vietnam and has been taking his 4 weeks vacations there cause he has been seeing an opportunity to set up shop.

    Maybe this is why China is slowly raising up some trouble in Southeast Asia.
     
    #28     Dec 27, 2006
  9. You guys are morons, even the prof (Of which I am one BTW)

    We are simply shifting jobs to higher paying professions.

    4.7% unemployment is full employ idiots. Any half way educated moron could get a job.
     
    #29     Dec 28, 2006

  10. Hell yes Bro!

    I wouldn't say always, but for the time being, hell yes. Name one country ya wouldn't want to fuck with? One other country that owns the sky? One other Nation that can shoot Tomahawks from under the polar ice cap? They don't miss my friends. Ever. They fly around buildings even. Guess what we can arm them with? Ka Boom. Only Nation that will actually use nukes. Bye Bye.


    For the next few hundred years, the USA is Rome. China is one tenth our size, and paranoid about civil war. Do the math Gents.
     
    #30     Dec 28, 2006