Good/Real prop firms

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by demoship, Mar 31, 2007.

  1. What I been seeing is that 95% of prop firms are really just scams, where their "job" opportunities are just a sales pitch to get you to start paying commission.

    If you're putting down a deposit, I don't see any reason why you should even have to pay .1% of your profits to the firm. Sure, they're providing you leverage, but it's INTRA-DAY LEVERAGE, they monitor your account w/ computer programs tick-by-tick and will liquidate you if their capital is at any risk, so unless a stock is halted for some major event and gaps up/down significantly against you (And honestly, how often does that happen?), there's no risk to the firm.

    I'm going to be graduating from college in a few months, and I'm looking to various jobs in the financial industry, and trading is a consideration.

    So my question is...

    A) What are the real prop firms, where the firm pays you a salary + bonus like the major firms/banks do, and also have entry-level positions available. I have a degree in computer science & business, and have 4 years stock market experience (NOT day trading! I'd probably be broke if I tried to day-trade, as 99% of people who try to do it on their own don't suceed), 3 years options (I primarily do options now).

    B) What are the deposit prop firms (I don't really consider them prop firms, but there are some legitimate ones out there who'll train you properly) who actually give GOOD training and have your best interests in mind, rather then just a churn and burn setup. What are the cost structures for these firms? Do they pay for your series 7/63/etc exams? Do they charge you for training, or a "desk fee" every month?

    I'd also prefer to work with options rather then equities.

    Any information would be greatly appreciated :)
  2. dr_sean


    Kershner is completely legit, tho they're in Texas.

    I know nobody there, nor do I work that, but it might be worth giving a look.

    Then there are a few others with the names behind them. Gelber, for instance.
  3. If you want real propr options or futures, go to Chicago.

    If you want REAL prop for equities, well, you kinda outta luck. Try Schonfeld, which has some groups under it that do prop or First New York Securities (the only real equity prop).
  4. I'm interested in options, I don't see any real money being made with intra-day equity trading. Back when the spreads were 1/4 of a point, there were tons more opportunities for equity day trading, but now, with penny spreads, it's just too hard to beat commissions/fees.
  5. me2


    there are plenty that many have never heard of or never will. im prop- losses are my firms and i get a very high payout for equity trading. u can bitch all u want about other shops that require money up- but in truth if you really were good u'd have a nugget and no need to go thru a shop at all. they provide an avenue for smaller cap traders to network, learn, and oh yeah- make money if they become proficient. as for the original posster to whine about their existence is only to get commissions- its a business- they arent charties. go open a resturant, retail store, go to hollywood to make it big- all similar crap out rates- or go put on the monkey suit and work for the man and stop whining.
  6. razor99


    amen to that !!!!
  7. woodrow


    If you are interested in strictly options trading it would likely be in your best interest to go to Chicago and try and get your foot in the door in one of the big options firms at the CBOE....That or you can set up an account at a shop like options express. happy hunting.
  8. Prop firms are in business to make money and what better way to do than than to earn a commission on all of a members trading activity. I suspect different prop firms have different motives i.e not all of them believe in their traders and some are happy to just churn and burn traders because thats their business model.

    In any case, win or lose; they still make money on commissions but they would prefer that you win unless they are trading against your account until you blow up and fully anticipating your blow up. I dont care if they are or not as long as I get my chance to trade, they would eventually learn (get conditioned) after getting stung once too many times not to trade against me like a Pavlov's Dog experiment. :)

    Though the really smart prop firms adopt a business model that gives their traders the best chance of doing well by offering good training and or mentoring. These are the firms that have your best intrests at heart and are actually working with you.
    They simply know that minimizing blow outs and maximizing longevity is a win win situation for both the trader and the firm.

    Going into business requires capital contributions.
    I think its ultimately beneficial to put up your own money because it makes you more accountable to your own efforts and trading decisions. Afterall you are not an employee, you are in business for yourself and the prop firm is just a venue by which you conduct your business. As long as the firm gets their commission they are happy.

    I figure a good trader that knows what he/she is doing will eventually be fully capitalized anyway and no longer in need of any leverage unless they are scaling up and you can only go so far with that too.
    Dont get me wrong now; I think leverage and debt itself are good tools for any business thats starting up but too much for too long will only get you into trouble at some point down the road.

    Money management, good risk assessment, as well as good fundamentals and technicals are really the keys to trader longevity and profits. Prop firms that require you to put up money in exchange for leverage are essentially giving you shot at trading for little more than a series 7 license and a burning desire to succeed.