GS is being charged with FRAUD by the SEC. That fact alone trumps all your BS --------------- Speaking of BS. I wonder how this came about. Did the direct victim{s} of the fraud call the SEC and say help me! I'm a victim of fraud. Did the gov't who bailed out the victim of the fraud file the claim? If GS pays a fine who gets the fine, the SEC, the bailout stu or the gov't who bailed out the loser? Sorry I'm not naming country names and cos, don't feel like looking them up. I would assume if I was a victim of fraud, the law would try to provide restitution, I haven't seen this in the news. I'm sure I'm missing something elementary here.
I don't believe you because I discussed with matter with someone who actually worked on the matter in question. I think it's normal to lend more credence to that person rather than an arrogant full-of-shit asshole on Elitetrader. Or do you think you have more expertise on the matter rather than the person who actually does it for a living? I'm not playing the blame game, I am stating matters as they are. The bottom line is that those on the inside of the racket, whether at the ratings agency or the Investment Banks all knew it was a racket which involved misleading the suckers and "making mistakes". It was all about fat fees & fat bonuses, for both of the parties. Kinda common sense, when you take Goldman Sach's nuts out of your mouth. And as I have said several times before, I do not really care if they want to play these schemes. It's only when the bailouts started that it became a problem for me and the general public. Being here in NYC (also London) and in the industry simply allows for more exposure on the matter from those actually involved. It's just a bit more interesting to hear what was going on in these places, instead of relying on biased journalists appeasing the Wall Street banks with long winded explanations. You've been called out on this topic before and you always avoided it. Now all of the sudden you're gonna claim that you have actual experience with CDOs and have worked in NYC I-banking or trading desk? Right, very believable. Stop kidding yourself, anyone who acts like you does not get into a bulge bracket firm, let alone last long there. I should be careful with my assumptions? Is that some sort of a thin veiled threat? You're a little punk wanna-be and I have said it before. You like to call others derogatory names because they don't agree with your over the top biased rhetoric. You consistently make demeaning statements on the ET community, as if to make yourself feel better about yourself. Since you act like such a big shot, take a visit to NYC, stay with your supposed close friends and take some time to meet me in person and say some of the crap you like to post to my face. Frankly, I doubt you can afford the ticket to get here from whatever sh*thole you're currently staying at.
I have a problem with this statement. I honestly think they may not have been aware they were on the wrong side of a humongous debacle. I am not saying this with 100% certainty, but think how most got caught, they only really shifted to the other side real late in the game. Some didn't even shift, they kept most of the shit paper in inventory. maybe they couldn't move it out quickly enough, but had they really known from the get go it was a sham, I doub't they would have taken on so much paper without properly hedging...as you are well aware from hindsight some IB's were in fact the "suckers"...
a) This is not a matter of believing me or not. The procedure between Ibanks and rating agencies as I stated it is fact and you can die stupid or inform yourself again because your source is factually incorrect. b) I stated I never did nor do work for GS. Nothing else. I also did not state that I modeled CDOs as part of my work experience at any ibank. Get a life buddy, you twist facts to suit your points, while you could simply look up how CDOs are structured, rated, and marketed in any good book on this matter.
Lets forget the underlings and look more at the top guys, like senior VPs, managing directors and top execs. Do you really think they were suckers by making huge bonuses from all the fat fees they were earning? You really think they were just mistaken and actually thought these CDO products are the holy grail? At the end of the day, is a ex-Lehman exec a sucker with his millions in bonuses from peddling "shitty deals"? Bear & Lehman got too carried away but I bet they thought the Fed and maybe US government would bail them out. Obviously, that bet turned out well for Goldman & Citi.
Yes, people that work for ratings agencies doing the actual work in the matter are incorrect. Whatever they do is plain wrong and a fallacy. Thanks for clarifying, makes perfect sense. I will make sure to notify my acquaintances immediately that what they did & experienced is all a lie. You don't even know what you state, you try to stay vague and pretend to be some big shot know it all. When the reality is that you are a full-of-shit wanna be who for some reason aspires to be a Goldman Sachs sycophant. Which is not even a problem, if you actually watched your internet mouth. Put your time to good use and go run a blog about how much you love Goldman Sachs, instead of trolling here.
so you disagree that generally no model files ever made it from IBs -> rating agencies? You also disagree that it was going practice for rating agencies to make their models known to structuring desks in order to agree on targeted ratings?
I don't care what the going practice is for other instruments. I am talking about the situation at hand. Do I know of actual excels being emailed from IB to ratings agency? No and I would not expect that. They are not dumb. What I do know is based on the conversations I had is that the ratings agencies were "very cooperative" with the IBs. There was a lot of collaboration between the two and any reasonable objections by the "grunts" at the ratings agencies were squashed. The intended goal was to make these products have a certain high grade credit ratings and the work to get this done was not on the actual product side but in the modeling & assumptions. Since you claim to have done modeling of these CDOs, you should know that the assumptions taken to even try to pretend that these are high grade credit instruments are delusions.
Asiaprop, why the investment banks (reject) the model to rate the CDO that show higher default risk? Gary Witt make this model when he work for Moodys. This model can not give so many AAA or Aaa ratings to these pools of the subprime. Why do the (investment banks) (same people who buy the bundles of subprime morgages from originators they fund) reject Gary Witt model, and tell the rating agency to use gaussian copula function model?