Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by RainMaker3000, Jan 29, 2020.
Certain things in life, give what is God's, and Give Caesar his 10 percent!
Mostly right, tithe ;ove offerings. BUT Roth , back door Roth are not taxed. Ammo has no federal tax on it, its really a user fee, called an excise tax, but you pay no excise tax unless you chose that ammo................................................................................... SEC penny/+ on ETF close outs are user fees= for wise or other wise sellers.LOL
Sounds ominous. We would only need to know what you mean by "things", "life","give", "God", "Ceasar" and "10 percent". We could leave it vague if it helps us sound authoritative.
It seems to promote some sort of compromise between two masters, despite other sayings that suggest it is not possible to serve two masters. Either that, or this is a statement that asserts a correlation between earthly rulers and the god of the world, as if one were the deputy of the other, resolving the problem of two masters.
Do you feel random earthly rulers are deputees of the god of this world?
And, what about a Good that does not make this world or have anything to do with it's kings. What is your opinion about such a Good, or how much you might owe it versus anything else?
If there were a God, there wouldn't be any taxes.
From the Gospel of Thomas #100:
I have a good source suggesting as much as 30% of the Gospel of Thomas is spurious. This could be one of the sayings that was never actually said, despite it is shared with the pop gospels.
But let me entertain it with possible interpretations and/or observations.
First off, he is not taking any back seat to any emperor or any god and suggests something is owed him that is at least as important as anything owed anybody else.
Second, he does not actually say what is owed to either of the other two, and does not specify a distinction about what god he is talking about. The god of this world?
Third, he suggests that they be given only what actually belongs to them. This seems reasonable, and could be used as an argument to avoid taxes, since your money does not actually belong to them if you earned it without their help. On the flip side is the argument that if a coin has the image of an emperor on it, the coin might actually belong to the ruler/issuer. In between is the argument that the money you've earned has been helped by the issuance of the coin, and so, maybe a portion of what you've earned belongs to the ruler of the economic environment that has helped you.
When speaking of intangible debts to the god of this world, it becomes a bit more nebulous and vague. Again, this may not mean that anything is actually owed to the god of this world. What belongs to the god of this world might actually be zero, relative to what belongs to the full measure of the Self Jesus speaks of (Christ). In other words, the god of this world might owe everything it seems to have to Christ, having taken (stolen) all it has from Christ to begin with. If this is true, then it follows that anything produced by the god of this world also owes everything to Christ, having taken (stolen) it from Christ to begin with. That is, it's possible he may be saying that everything belongs to him (as Christ), and it's time we re-evaluated the worth of anything else.
The world's most valuable commodity is ATTENTION (mind over matter). We "pay" attention when we give it. Coin is a proxy for attention, the attention you give to your work, for example. When we get caught up in political porn, the democratic debates for example (or impeachment proceedings), we pay a lot of attention, and when this attention is taken from our work (jobs) it can really start to add up over four years. Likewise, a lot of attention is given to the god of this world, affecting our bottom line.
It's possible Jesus is saying all attention belongs to Christ, and that any attention taken away from Christ, is given to entities not worthy of the attention (does not really belong to them). He could be suggesting that people re-evaluate what they pay attention to, and give it back to Christ, to whom all attention belongs in the first place. If this were to happen, both the emperor and the god of this world would disappear back into the void of nothingness from which they came (when attention that belonged to Christ was given to them). And with this, all problems, including the problem of taxes, would be solved.
I don't necessarily disagree, but i don't follow your logic. Can you explain?
My logic is simply,
If taxes are actually a necessity, then no Good god exists.
Since a Good god does exist, taxes are not actually necessary.
This raises questions like, why do taxes seem necessary if they are not?
This might be a good time to point out that because of the weird way the relationship between the united states and their federal (common) government has evolved, Federal income taxes in the U.S. are voluntary except for corporations and peoples working for the Federal government, as well peoples residing in territory the Federal government actually owns.
And so, a lot of Federal income depends upon an ongoing deception. This circumstance, by extrapolation, also pertains to our relationship with this world, to begin with. It demands our attention through some very tricky deceptions. It exists only by the attention we give it.
2 big problems.  The Word of good God says pay your taxes.  IRS + common sense disagree with you. Of course no one should be so crazy to overpay taxes LOL-LOL,
Then maybe you need to start believing in God so you won't have to pay taxes...
Believing is no good. Taxes certain, God not.
Only five problems:
what do you mean by "word",
what do you mean by "good",
what do you mean by "God",
what do you mean by "pay" and
what do you mean by "taxes"?
Vaguery plays in the favor of that which *takes* by deception or force. So why are you being so vague?
Other problem is the word of Good1 says otherwise, so i don't know how you are going to overcome that problem by appealing to authority by virtue of liturgical (things written in books) antiquity (old things are more true?)...if that's what you mean. The most authoritative statements about Good could be written tomorrow...or today...by any qualified penman. But i would never call them the word "of" Good as words don't emanate in any direct way from that which is really Good. Words come about in an extremely roundabout fashion, themselves, like faith, initially invented as weapons against the truth. What we have today and tomorrow is consistency of position in which no position is, or can be contravened by any other position. It is this consistency which marks the signature of truth.
If you are saying i should pay the condo fees of whatever condo association i have chosen to join, then yes, i should pay those. Are those taxes? Or perhaps they are better qualified as agreements fulfilled (or not). Unless it is a contractual obligation, taxes represent a "taking" (plural "takings").
Taxes, as such, are what the god of this world does to Good. That is, that which owns nothing must take from that which owns everything.
If you disagree, tell me, what exactly does the entity that takes your taxes actually own? This is important because even by your own standards, we are obliged to pay only what one owns (what "belongs" to "Ceasar"). If the fruit of your labor belongs to "Ceasar", then pay it, even all of it, otherwise go to plan B. To make this thought experiment as simple as possible, tell me what exactly belonged to Caligula?
Plan B is to recognize that you are being threatened either by deception or force or both to take what belongs to YOU (and or to Good). Assessing the threat, and assessing your perceived vulnerability, you will either comply in whole or in part to the demands put upon you.
To be consistent, you would need to admit that you owe a Jizya tax to one or several Islamic authorities, right now, as we speak. This tax is laid NOW, upon the ENTIRE world population. Islam claims the entire world for it's jurisdiction and this tax has not been repealed since their own book of antiquity was penned by interested parties within a couple hundred years of the marauder Mohammed.
Since you are an unbeliever in Islam, why don't you pay this tax? Aha, because the swords of Islam have not (yet) reached control of your locality to enforce the existing edict.
Right now, what belongs to Islam? Does the fruit of your labor belong to Islam right now? 10%? 100%? If not, why not?
One hundred years from now when Islam gains control over the USA through deception, force, or both, what then belongs to Islam? Does the fruit of your labor THEN belong to Islam (it's priests/imams)?
My point is this: you pay taxes according to the level of deception or threat of force that you feel vulnerable to. And this is not something that is regulated by Good (the one and only Good), whose motto is more like: FEAR NOT.
The whole point of "overcoming the world" is about overcoming the fear of threat by deception or force (or both) upon one's perceived vulnerabilities, which is the STATUS QUO from the beginning of such world till it's end.
Christ is about re-assessing your perception of vulnerability such that you are no longer threatened by deception or force from any source. In fact, anything that gives rise to fear (through deception or force) is entirely illegitimate. Since the material worlds give rise to fear through deception and/or force, the material worlds are entirely illegitimate (own nothing).
Your assessment about your own vulnerabilities is YOUR OWN BUSINESS, not Christ's. According to Christ, you are not vulnerable to anything. This is based on KNOWLEDGE. It is only ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN FAITH you are vulnerable to forces from without and/or within. Taxes ("takings"), then, are the wages of sin, meaning: so long as you walk by your own faith and not the knowledge of Christ, you will be constantly badgered by vulnerability assessments that emanate from ignorance.
As it stands, material objects (such as bodies) are vulnerable to forces of deception (blunt force, such as baseball bats and swords can be classified as deceptions given the knowledge of Christ). The only way to be free from vulnerabilities is to NOT BE A BODY. Christ teaches you how to be invulnerable by dissociating yourself from the body. Christ, being 100% spirit/mind and 0% body, is not vulnerable to anything, and so, nothing that belongs to Christ can be taken from Christ.
If you, like all Christians, deny that you are Christ, then yes, you are some % body (10% ? 100% ?) and will succumb accordingly to the threats upon your assessment of your SELF. Again, that is YOUR BUSINESS, not Christ's, which endeavors to re-deem your assessment of your SELF.
The only way you could be 10% body is to DESIRE it to be SO (believe in it). Thus, a 10% "tax" (taking) is the inevitable result of your own ignorance about Christ.
Plan B is about how you can keep your assessment (deeming) of your SELF to some %percent of bodily existence, and cope with the threats to your vulnerability (as such). In re-deeming (re-assessing) what constitutes your SELF according to the leadership of Jesus, you would not pay taxes (takings) according your assessments. But in re-deeming your SELF, you would no longer claim any %percent of bodily existence. If you think Christ is half man half god, then your tax (takings) rate should be approximately 50% because what you do to Christ you do it to yourself.
Your tax rate decreases proportionately as your footprint in the world of "the god of this world" decreases. If you want to do "big business" in it's world, then your footprint increases. Coveting a bodily existence also increases taxes (threats against your vulnerabilities) accordingly. Your covetousness, whether intense or mild, is YOUR BUSINESS, and is only regulated by advice to not be covetous at all (do not desire a body as any part of your existence).
In the USA there is a tax (taking) on the sin of ignorant faith (belief in an income tax for the average person abiding in the states). So US income taxes are like a sin tax. Christ cannot ask you to pay this tax any more than Christ can ask you to sin. Since faith is mostly arrogant, the income tax in the US seems the most fair to me. Arrogant people deserve to be deceived. So i have not much incentive to release you of the perceived obligation by explaining the law in detail...except to say that the phrasing of law is used to deceive...and that it is voluntary according to law. It becomes mandatory only according to your faith about the law.
But lets say that it was "mandatory" by law, meaning, the taker (the State) actually has the ratification (mandate) of a majority of peoples to transparently (clear in law) collect an income tax upon itself. If you feel yourself accessory to this social contract, then yes, pay your part...if you wish to remain unmolested as a body existing in this world. Even if you don't feel yourself accessory to any kind of social contract, you will pay according to how much peace (non-molestation) you wish to maintain in your experience. You will make an assessment about how much you think you need to give up to gain what you really want: a body that exists unmolested in this world. Again, that is your business not Christ's, because you are not supposed to be a body in the first place. You don't own a body, so to speak, and neither does a legal entity own a body let alone yours. You only "own" a body to the degree that you are a sinner (ignorant of the knowledge of Christ), and become more and more vulnerable to the degree you think you own one.
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