God is...

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by studentofthemarkets, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. tomorton


    No, not at all - if I needed reinforcement in my atheist beliefs, I would be posting on an atheist thread or forum with other atheists.

    I think I also post on threads like this one as I slightly resent the self-righteousness of religious people. I don't think this is confined to Christians. But I hate their condescending and patronising attitudes and their and "holier than thou" moralising.
    #21     Aug 2, 2021
  2. userque


    Not necessarily. You could look for reinforcement by seeking the approval of you fellow atheist who also post in OP's threads.

    You also could look for reinforcement by hearing the responses of Christians, and saying to yourself, if not out loud, "Yup! That's why I'm a proud atheist!"

    Satan probably feels the same way.

    But has the OP exhibited those traits here?

    Do you visit other groups that exhibit those traits? (High IQ forums, Chess Master forums, Law Enforcement forums, Street Gang forums, Hacker forums, Etc.)

    Or is one of your goals in life to troll Christians into acting in a manner that you consider to be "non-Christian?" This "test" could also be your reinforcement I spoke of earlier, where you get to say, again, to yourself, or out loud, "AH HA!! I knew it!! There's nothing special about OP!! He acts like everyone else!! Christianity is a farce!!"
    #22     Aug 2, 2021
    studentofthemarkets likes this.

  3. Happening now. He is currently discussing the Caiaphas ossuary and the nails found in the area. He is giving a rebuttal to Bart Ehrman's belief that the nails are likely not related to crucifixion.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    #23     Aug 2, 2021
  4. Here is the conclusion of one of the articles Mike Winger used for evidence in the video posted above:

    Article on chemical analysis of nails from Caiaphas' ossuary - "Petrochemistry of Sediment and Organic Materials Sampled from Ossuaries and Two Nails from the Tomb of the Family of the High Priest Caiaphas, Jerusalem" https://doi.org/10.4236/ad.2020.83015

    Petrochemistry of Sediment and Organic Materials Sampled from Ossuaries and Two Nails from the Tomb of the Family of the High Priest Caiaphas, Jerusalem
    Aryeh E. Shimron1, Yoetz Deutsch1, Werner H. Schoch2, Vitaly Gutkin3
    1Geological Survey of Israel (Ret.), Jerusalem, Israel.
    2Labor Fur Quartere Holtzer, Langnau, Switzerland.
    3The Center for Nanoscience and Nanotechnology, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Israel.

    Due to the lack of any evidence to support the hypothesis, we contest the proposal that the nails found in the Caiaphas tomb (Greenhut, 2004;Rahmani, 1961) were used for carving the decorative motives or were used for inscribing the names on the ossuaries. Besides the problematic morphology of the nails we also take into consideration that inside one of the skulls in the tomb a coin was found, this may perhaps be attributed to a known pagan practice whereby the coin was meant as a payment to Charon—the ferryman of the Underworld. Thus far only one other nail has ever been found inside an ossuary (the Yehohanan Heel Bone nail, Figure 8 above, Tsaferis, 1985) and that nail has been the only recorded archaeological artifact specifically identified with crucifixion. The presence in a burial context of what appear to be two crucifixion nails in the tomb of Caiaphas may, as the coin above, be more than a simple curiosity, rather they may be related to the fact that both Jewish and other sources identify nails used in a crucifixion as amulets possessing magical properties (ref. above). It follows that the presence of two nails with slivers of accreted cedar wood containing trace remains of bone tissue, present in two different ossuaries in the tomb of Caiaphas, suggests that, although neglected, these rare artifacts were an important issue in the family of the high priest. In consequence of the full range of observations above we feel confident in concluding that 1) the nails that we sampled are the missing nails from the Caiaphas family tomb and 2) these nails were, very probably, used in a crucifixion.​
    #24     Aug 2, 2021
  5. Mike Winger also referenced Jody Magness' article. I have posted a short excerpt below, however the article also contains some interesting details of customs and artifacts during that period of time.

    Jody Magness' article on why the archaeological data supports the historicity of the burial of Jesus by Joseph of Arimathea. "Ossuaries and the Burials of Jesus and James"


    My review of Jewish tombs and burial customs in the late Second Temple period sets the stage for a reconsideration of the archaeological and literary evi- dence for the burials of Jesus and his brother James. In the second part of this article I discuss the Gospel accounts describing the removal of Jesus from the cross and his burial. In my opinion, these accounts are consistent with the archaeological evidence and with Jewish law. Jesus came from a family of mod- est means that presumably did not own a rock-cut tomb. Because Jesus died and was removed from the cross on the eve of the Sabbath, there was no time to dig a trench grave for him. For this reason, Jesus' body was placed in the rock- cut family tomb of a wealthy follower (named Joseph of Arimathea in the Gospel accounts).​
    #25     Aug 2, 2021
  6. Enjoy!!

    I am a scientist. Still, on Easter, I celebrate that Jesus rose from the dead about 2,000 years ago. This event, in first-century Palestine, is the cornerstone of everything. In the same way that trust-like faith in science is connected to evidence, so is the faith I have in the Resurrection.

    What is the evidence from which grew my trust? A brief and incomplete outline is included here.1 This evidence is not an answer, but it raises the question. All we need is curiosity.

    1. Without the physical Resurrection, two thousand years of history are left begging for explanation, like a movie missing a key scene. No other event in all recorded history has reached so far across national, ethnic, religious, linguistic, cultural, political, and geographic borders. The message spread with unreasonable success across the world. During just the first few centuries, it spread without political or military power, prevailing against the ruthless efforts of dedicated, organized and violent opposition. How did a small band of disempowered Jews in an occupied and insignificant territory of ancient Rome accomplish this unequaled act?2 What happened so many years ago that reframed all human history?

    2. With dates established by radiometric analysis, prophecies from centuries before Jesus’ birth predict his life, death, and resurrection.3The great scientist Blaise Pascal identifies this as the “tangible proof” for people who want evidence that God exists. These prophecies include specific details that Jesus and His followers could not control. For example, before the Romans invented crucifixion, Psalms 22:16 described the piercing of Jesus’ hands and feet. Isaiah 53 is a particularly important prophecy that lays out the story of Jesus and the meaning of the Resurrection (Isaiah 52:13-53:12). Is this evidence of an Intelligence outside our time confirming Jesus’ authority?

    3. Jesus was a real person in history who died. Several manuscripts from multiple sources, including Jewish historians, describe a man named Jesus who lived and was executed.4Specific details reported about His execution confirm.“Blood and water” spilled from a spear wound in His side. He really died and was not merely unconscious.5

    4. The early accounts of the Resurrection and prophecies predicting it were reliably transmitted through history. As of 2014, more than 66,000 early manuscripts are known, orders of magnitude more than other ancient texts. Many are carbon dated to before Jesus’ time on earth and the first few centuries after. We see accounts nearly unaltered in the earliest manuscripts.6 A pattern of consistency emerges. There are variations in the manuscripts, but nothing invalidates the reliability of the Resurrection accounts.

    5. Accounts of the Resurrection include inconvenient and unflattering details, that make most sense as attempts to reliably record what had happened, free from embellishment. They do not fit expectations of a fabricated account. For example, women are the first witnesses of the Resurrection. In a culture that did not admit the testimony of a woman as valid evidence in court, this detail is surprising. Likewise, all the disciples, the leaders of the early Church, flee as cowards when Jesus is taken.

    6. After Jesus’ violent death, His followers were frightened and scattered. Then, something happened that grew a strong, bold, and confident belief that resisted sustained, murderous opposition. Unlike other movements with executed leaders, once they came back together they did not replace Jesus with one of his family members. Their resistance was entirely non-violent and devoid of political power. Yet they were all suddenly willing to die for what they saw. What changed them? Why was there not evidence at the time to undermine their belief?7 What convinced them that Jesus was inconceivably greater than his family?

    7. More than just a fact about our past, the Resurrection creates a connection to God that is perceived by people from all times, cultures, socioeconomic statuses, personalities, and metal capacities, across the last 2,000 years of history. Its reach includes some of the most famous scientists: Blaise Pascal, Johann Kepler, Robert Boyle, Gregor Mendel, Asa Gray, Michael Faraday, James Maxwell, Santiago Ramón y Cajal, and Francis Collins. Is this unmatched reach and influence a sign of a living God working His purpose in history?8

    Some of the evidence here is established by scientific methods. For example, radiocarbon dating demonstrates that Isaiah 53’s prediction that Jesus “see the light of life” after dying was written at least 100 years before His birth. However, the question of Jesus gently beckons us out from science’s limits, into a reality where love, beauty, goodness, and relationships are real. In the question of the empty tomb, science itself reaches its hard limit. It points to something beyond itself.
    Exceprt from: http://www.veritas.org/evidence-easter-scientists-list/#_ftn4
    #26     Aug 2, 2021
  7. I have to disagree, the morally bankrupt Religious leaders have done a hell of a good job chasing decent people out of church! Telling your sheeple “If you wear a mask I will kick you out!” and remaining in his church is so Matthew 23:15

    “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!

    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
    #27     Aug 2, 2021
  8. I do agree that morally bankrupt religious leaders have abused their authority and ALSO have misled their congregations away from the truths in Scripture, especially on the need for salvation. They are the blind leading the blind.

    The thing is, the Bible warns us about these problems. People really should search the Scriptures for themselves to be able to recognize what the Bible teaches and what is contrary to the Bible, just as the Bereans did when they searched the Scriptures daily to see if the message Paul and Silas were preaching about Jesus was truly in accordance with the Old Testament Scriptures.

    But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant." Matthew 20:25, 26 ESV​

    “Beware of the false prophets, [teachers] who come to you dressed as sheep [appearing gentle and innocent], but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15 Amplified Bible​

    "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we [originally] preached to you, let him be condemned to destruction!" Galatians 1:8 Amplified Bible​
    #28     Aug 2, 2021
  9. tomorton


    All interesting speculation. As far as Satan is concerned, that goes beyond speculation into pure fantasy. Satan's no more real than Batman.
    #29     Aug 3, 2021
  10. tomorton


    You keep piling up what you call evidence to support something which is inherently impossible, the existence of gods. Its the ultimate conspiracy theory. You might just as well post "evidence" showing the existence of James Bond.
    #30     Aug 3, 2021