@themickey I don't agree with all that goes on in the Pentecostal movement, but I know some of them, maybe a lot of them, are saved and trying to follow God. I have a Pentecostal prayer buddy who puts up with me, probably thinks I am less Spirit-filled since I don't believe the sign gifts are meant for today and also puts up with me because I don't believe in Christians dominating the world. I believe the world will become a bigger mess, then Jesus physically returns and nobody will ever question the existence of God again, thus there will be world domination, but it doesn't come about by Christians overtaking it.
But how can you know (judge) that? I'm not using the word 'judge' in a demeaning way. But how can any human determine who is & isnt saved? Wouldn't that be like a fish determining which other fish are best in the frypan? And pleeeeease, no more "the bible says...."
I can't determine if anyone is saved, not even people in my own church. I CAN, however, determine if the criteria for salvation as presented in the Bible is what a person is saying they have met. What is that criteria? I already posted it a lot. It's simple, repentant faith in Jesus, coming to Him for reconciliation based on what He accomplished by His death, burial and resurrection. For example, if someone says they've been born again and I ask them what that means and they say they took a psychedelic drug and some monster appeared and pronounced, "You are now born again," I can determine that this does not meet the biblical description. The only reason I dared to say previously that you have not been born again, is because if you had then you would have been "sealed" with the Holy Spirit which results in some experiential knowledge and revelation of Jesus on a personal level (not talking about visible). Now, it might not have been fair or wise or even right for me to say such a thing, because I really don't know your heart. I can only say that if you had really come to know Him in a personal way, that I can't see how you could say the things about Him that you have said. And I said that in kind of a desperate attempt to help you see that if you haven't actually had God revealing Himself to you through the conviction of the Holy Spirit based on Bible verses, for lack of a better phrase, coming alive to you, then maybe you might reconsider whether or not you have met the Savior and if not, then go meet HIM, and do it right now, ASAP! Actually, it's not as easy as saying I will go meet the Savior. Everyone has a different experience that brings them to true faith in Jesus, but I know that for myself personally, I grew in that faith as I carefully studied Hebrews and saw the sufficiency of what Jesus did at the cross, that all sin was covered, and for forever. And it's not like a one--time and done experience. Salvation, of course is a one-time experience, but growing in faith and understanding is life-long and still very much centered on Jesus' work on the cross. "Preach the gospel to yourself everyday" is a famous saying and when I began to ponder on the truths of the gospel, my faith grew, and I could "see" my faith. Not sure you'll know what I mean by that. Faith comes by listening carefully to the Bible, it does NOT come though sensationalism, which is why I do fear that many in churches may be swept up by their emotions and not actually have come to Christ for personal salvation. But I am not the judge of that. Yeah, it's not a good idea to judge someone's salvation, unless there is clear deviation from what the Bible is clearly teaching. I didn't quote the bible. But I did ramble on and on...
A favourite expression of christians is; "oh he/she wasn't a christian, just a professing christian" when said transgressor decides to pull pin on the church. Obviously these christian people are judge and jury that transgressors can never have been christians, just professing types. I'd go so far and say all christians have good intentions but some just either wake up or others decide they cant be bothered with it anymore. If christians were really empowered by God then you would see miraculous results, but what I think we see is people empowered by good values like western democracy and fairness.
I've repeatedly mentioned that all Christians are not alike. Yet we still see attempts to lump them into one basket, with no evidence. Some give atheist a deceptive characterization. Source? Source? Perhaps and not surprising as 'broad is the road to destruction.' Source? And define miraculous results.
My understanding of the Bible is that once a person is saved, they will remain saved, no matter what sins they commit. There are verses that seem to say that one who is truly saved will not be able to continue long in extreme sin, because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit tries to bring the unrepentant Christian back to fellowship with Himself. I can list verses if anyone wants to read them, but it seems like nobody likes long lists of verses. It's not just Christians today that came up with the expression that "oh he/she wasn't a Christian, just a professing Christian," as you said, but that is found in Scripture. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19 Some Christians think you can lose your salvation by forsaking God. This verse would seem to say that people fall away because they actually weren't truly belonging to God in the first place. There's not a lot of super clear teaching in the Bible that explains just how far a believer can go in sin or denying God. This verse from Peter would make it seem like a believer could actually go pretty far into sin...otherwise why would he warn them not to? If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 1 Peter 4:15 We all know that David committed adultery and murder. It seemed that during that time, he was not experiencing fellowship with God, yet it took the prophet Nathan to go to him to confront him about his sin before David actually repented, and that was about 9 months after the the fact. Notice the misery David felt when he was not in fellowship with God after the adultery and Bathsheba (this psalm was written in repentance afterward). 3 When I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. 4 For day and night your hand was heavy on me; my strength was sapped as in the heat of summer. 5 Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord.” And you forgave the guilt of my sin. Psalm 32 Some Christians believe that when Christians fall away they are no longer saved and then they can become saved again, and this can be an ongoing adventure. I don't believe this to be a correct interpretation of Scripture. For one thing, if God gives eternal life to a believer and cleanses them from all their sins, as Scripture clearly teaches, then they HAVE that. It is eternal. It is complete forgiveness. It doesn't say anywhere that it's temporary eternal life based on your good behavior and it doesn't say God removes the punishment of your sins until you fall away, then He holds them against you again, until you come back, and then He removes them again. Instead, and this is why I REALLY REALLY REALLY love the book of Hebrews, it shows the the sufficiency of Jesus sacrifice to pardon thoroughly and completely, a sinner's sins. It's not dependent on our behavior, it is dependent on coming to God as bankrupt of any righteousness or goodness on our part, asking Him to save us from sin. IF (and that's not a possible IF) God doesn't save a person from the punishment of their sins when they are born again, then that would not be a fulfillment of His Word. He promised salvation to sinners, not goody-two-shoes. On the other hand, in order to receive it, it does require confession and repentance from sin, because sin is the issue that separates between God and us.
@themickey and every other unbeliever who comes across this post: WILL YOU SEEK GOD? God gave Jeremiah 29:13 as a promise to the Israelites when they were in captivity. Because He is the same God, with the same heart towards people, it will still be true of Him today to let those who seek Him with all their hearts to be found by Him. https://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-pursue-us.html
What are we searching for? A God in our imagination. A church with flashy preachers, flashy cars, flashy buildings, flashy tasty women, flashy music....blah blah? So lets' forget the church for a minute, wtf is God? Again we can dream on but he's only what we imagine. As for him talking to us audibly or consciously, I don't believe that for one second.
Going by the context of the verse, it was to Israelites who already had much of the Old Testament already written, so they would have known the identity of God as the God of the Old Testament and would search for Him according to how He had revealed Himself in the Scriptures. There are many verses in the Bible about seeking God and finding. The question is, are you seeking Him where He has revealed Himself? Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I. Isaiah 58:9
Seeking to know Him. To experience what Jesus said believers would experience, which it appears you have never experienced. I guess I shouldn't make any assumptions. Have you experienced this @themickey? The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him. John 14:21