You know and I know.....and our idiot gov't knows how worthless and shitty GM is. GM asked for $35B bailout last month and senate won't even pass $14B.......yeah $14B, not even $15B.....how the f.u.c.k do they come up with the number 14. not 20, not 15, but 14......what the shit. If anyone yays the bailout, they are either directly related to GM(in person, family, relative,etc) or have no clue what the situation represents. UAW is being a pig....and someone needs to tell them that pigs get slaughtered. GM's assembly line worker getting paid $50/hr making piece of shit cars.....compare that to Toyota's worker getting paid $25/hr making superior cars in every way. and if UAW just can't realize the gravity of this situation, let them stand firm and be out of work. The real dilemma here, as we all know, is that big3 will not make a dramatic comeback by selling cars.......if they do, it'll take them a decade. Our fed has 3 choices. 1. don't bail them out. let them die, let our economy suffer short term, firesale their assets and take over their debt at steep discount. come up with welfare plans for GM workers. and we'll all be fine in 5-10 years. 2. bail them out....bail them out again in 2009, bail them out again in 2010, bail them out in 2011, bail them out in 2012, bail them out again in 2012, bail them out again in 2013, bail them out in 2014, bail them out again in 2015, bail them out in 2016, bail them out in 2016, bail them out in 2017, bail them out again in 2018, and finally give up on them....and we now revert back to plan 1 after dumping $100's of Billions. 3. bail them out forever, until they start selling decent cars. as of now, plan 2 and 3 seem like a real possibilities, and I've never been more proud to be an American.
Perhaps they pulled the number 14 out of their ass like you pulled the number 50 out of yours. Show me the pay stub of a line worker making 50 bucks an hour. Our Fed has two choices...give GM and any other industry financial assistance or, withdraw all funds already given to the scumbag bankers and let the chips fall where they may. I fully support plan 2.
Quote from forsalenyc: You know and I know.....and our idiot gov't knows how worthless and shitty GM is. GM asked for $35B bailout last month and senate won't even pass $14B.......yeah $14B, not even $15B.....how the f.u.c.k do they come up with the number 14. not 20, not 15, but 14......what the shit. If anyone yays the bailout, they are either directly related to GM(in person, family, relative,etc) or have no clue what the situation represents. UAW is being a pig....and someone needs to tell them that pigs get slaughtered. GM's assembly line worker getting paid $50/hr making piece of shit cars.....compare that to Toyota's worker getting paid $25/hr making superior cars in every way. and if UAW just can't realize the gravity of this situation, let them stand firm and be out of work. The real dilemma here, as we all know, is that big3 will not make a dramatic comeback by selling cars.......if they do, it'll take them a decade. Our fed has 3 choices. 1. don't bail them out. let them die, let our economy suffer short term, firesale their assets and take over their debt at steep discount. come up with welfare plans for GM workers. and we'll all be fine in 5-10 years. 2. bail them out....bail them out again in 2009, bail them out again in 2010, bail them out in 2011, bail them out in 2012, bail them out again in 2012, bail them out again in 2013, bail them out in 2014, bail them out again in 2015, bail them out in 2016, bail them out in 2016, bail them out in 2017, bail them out again in 2018, and finally give up on them....and we now revert back to plan 1 after dumping $100's of Billions. 3. bail them out forever, until they start selling decent cars. as of now, plan 2 and 3 seem like a real possibilities, and I've never been more proud to be an American. ------ I believe you are only upset because they are making 100 x more than you make trading or whatever you do?
Ok....$50/hr thing was totally discretionary on my part, which I can be.......there are sources out there if u look around. wanna pick a fight over that number? you win I forfeit. but you quoted "scumbag bankers" above, and yet you "fully support plan 2". In other words, you know GM is a scumbag, and you'll fully support them? You are obviously an oxymoron. The word 'fully' is totally inappropriate here......if the fed goes w/ plan 2, I'd describe it as 'unwilling' or better yet, "without choice."
The total value of compensation to experienced union workers, counting job banks, retiree health benefits and other things has been estimated at costing the big 3 of up to $73+/hour.
the wage these workers earn on the floor is just a minority of the total cost of a car, and I've heard that several times, not just the UAW chief saying that they only represent 10% of the costs of a car. What he probably doesn't say is the health care costs, and that's a real problem. Their cars are also just not selling, no matter how cheap they can make them so that's a problem too. It's a long term problem that everyone working in the company for decades is responsible. Also who made the genius decision to try to keep production constant during the 2001 recession? They should have bit the bullet, laid off people there and come out leaner today. Instead they were short term oriented. And now only 7 years later they say they're on the verge of bankruptcy. It's very popular to blame the UAW for everything wrong under the sun. Tell me what did your parents do? There's a good chance their prosperity was possible because of unions, and today they're dissapearing and they're blamed for absolutely everything. The jackass GM CEO Wagoner goes on TV saying their cars are high quality, they're great cars, it's a perception problem blah blah. Funny it's not him we mention. Everytime the issue of GM and "problems" we always associate that in our minds with the unions. If or when they go in chapter 11, they will have a chance to renegociate the contracts. And unions are not a problem in a system that systematically distributes wealth to the top, unions are a counter weight to that.
This "Too Big To Fail" concept is a joke. Companies like Bear Stearns and AIG should have failed, just like GM will fail. Maybe if I worked for these companies I'd feel differently, but I don't, and it sucks that things are the way they are but this is where things have ended up due to a number of stupid things that have been going on in this country for decades. Life may be tough bit will continue. People still have to eat so they'll have to figure out something, making for a scarier period or not. The road will be a dark one for some years, but lets hope (or even better than hope people will start thinking for themselves and a revolution will brew if necessary) the U.S. government, the Federal Reserve, and the rest of the U.S. country regulators and jokers will quit shoving paper towel into the bottom of the ship so that we can move out of this period with a little more haste and less hurt. Cx
Re, I am pretty sure GM cars are selling. DETROIT â General Motors retained its global sales crown in 2007 â just barely. It reported worldwide vehicle sales last year of 9,369,000 vehicles, just 3,000 units more than Toyota's total of 9,366,000. According to the Associated Press, GM has been the world's No. 1 car company for 77 years. GM said its global sales in 2007 were the second best in the company's history, including record-setting volume in such emerging markets as China and Brazil. But its U.S. sales dropped 6 percent. Toyota's U.S. sales and market share continue to climb. It passed Ford Motor Company last year to become the No. 2 seller in the U.S., with 16 percent of the market. I am not suggesting anything just pointing out the total sales.