ghco, chicago

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by kamdooo, May 11, 2005.

  1. kamdooo


    interviewed and I'd say the office is quite nice. Much nicer than the other prop shops I'd visited (echo, assent, hlv)

    Turns out they are switching to percentages, but first years get a salary. Incoming class is small, 5-6.

    Some people might bash the place, but the 1st year income alone should suit most newbies: could only hope to make 50k in their first or second year.

    The office/work environment looks very professional and modern. Had a maths test, then some soft questions. I'll know the results in about 1 month.
  2. Good luck! Do you get to decide what to trade? Curious how many trades per day the typical trader does there. I do maybe 2-3 trades per day trading the Russell on my own. Keep us posted.
  3. kamdooo


    sorry. I don't know who decides what newbs trade, or how much. I'll find out more (or not if I don't get called back!) in about 1 month. Until then, good luck.
  4. 50K, wow, my class only got offered 35k. And despite my past negative comments about GH, which I still hold onto, the one definete positive was the fact that it did offer a salary, which is pretty huge especially as a new trader. Much better than putting 5k down somewhere else and blowing that away. But if they are offering newbies 50k, I would definetely jump on it, especially as a new trader.

    Best of Luck
  5. Are you saying they pay $50k basic salary for first year traders?

    Or do you mean they expect your first year total income to reach $50k including salary and bonus because that is something quite different entirely!!

    Lots of firms in London state pay in terms of potential when advertising, so they will say £35k+ OTE which means ON TARGET EARNINGS and not guaranteed. Recruitment consultants do that sort of thing the whole time with the real salary being more like £17-19k plus commission, and because it is theoretically possible to achieve that higher figure if you are exceptional then they can quote it as being true technically!

    Take my advice and make them put every grand promise in the contract they offer you, if they do then great for you, but if they don't then beware as unless you have it in your contract they would be under no obligation to fulfill any promises. I heard a while ago on a thread here on Elite that they pay $35k salary plus the rest as a bonus, if that is true then make sure the contract states it clearly and then there should be no problem.

    Did they say what percentage they are offering? You should contact Geneva Trading too as they have a good reputaion in Chicago, but I don't know what they offer. Good luck with the job search.
  6. One more thing; what about the contract will it have a non-compete and how long will it be, will it still be 5 years?

    And what about the the desk-fees as they were mentioned in your previous thread, did they tell you how much they would charge by any chance?
  7. kamdooo


    unfortunately, these topics were not brought up. (desk fees, no compete length...)

    The 50k is total one can imagine, the 15k bonus may never come around being a newb.

    the one positive thing is that newbs are kept on for at least 1 year; get axed in the first 3-6 months was said not to happen.

  8. What makes me laugh is that you travelled all the way to Chicago from another part of the country and you failed to ask those key questions like desk-costs, contract length and realistic take-home targets?

    In your defense however I know how hard it is to ask those kind of questions when you have no experience and you can see that they don't want to answer, and you don't want to pressure them for an answer through fear of being rejected as a result. As an experienced trader I would never put up with that, its a case of what is the split etc or I walk straight out. But as a newbie these firms will try to limit what they tell you naturally because they know that they have you where they want you. You need the job and they can chose the greenest and most believing graduates that apply. Which in my experience seems to be a pre-requisite, prop shops don't like people who are aware of the reality, they like to be able to butter you up and get you excited to boost your spirit.

    You need to take a totally objective look at whatever deal you are offered. Make sure that the contract contains all that is promised and ask yourself honestly how you will react if you were promised things that failed to emerge. I presume that the 15k bonus will not make the contract, as otherwise it wouldn't be a bonus and no prop shop gives guaranteed bonuses anyway. So how will you feel if you were to not get the bonus and still be under contract presuming you sign a non-compete. Would you still be grateful for having a job or would you resent the fact that you were stuck in the contract and never got what was promised. You know yourself best and so need to be honest in weighing up the pros and cons. Sure a salary is a big help, but I feel that people are often too eager to get a salary and convince themselves that is the best route without actually considering the alternatives.

    I am not trying to put you off here, I just want you to understand fully what route you could be taking. I know probably 250+ traders who trade futures and I have seen how people at different firms, get different deals and different treatment and how they react with the benefit of hindsight. Just remember that all the bitter and allegedly scorned former prop traders that have posted about bad deals in the past once felt as optimistic and excited as you did, and statistically you are far more likely to end up as one of them than a trading legend, don't let dreams of glory and beliefs of fate and destiny guide your decision making; I have seen this more than you think would be possible. How often does a total novice post here asking for information and declaring that THEY just know that they will be successful; everyone hopes that when they start, but hope is really all it is.

    If you were offered a job for $50k that did not interest you and you were offered a 70% split trading deal with no salary what would you take? If you wanted to trade that badly as I did then the salary would be an incentive, but no salary would not be a barrier. Remember if you set up your own business you would be paying yourself and have no salary. So you have to decide on whether or not you want a career or just a job with excitement.

    The choice is yours ultimately, but consider your options thoroughly or you could regret rash decision making in a couple of years time, in which case certain posters will be accusing you of being disloyal or greedy for wanting a better non-salaried deal. Trading is a tough business and you need to make sure that to give yourself the greatest opportunity to succeed you pick the right way to initiate a career, at the right firm perhaps and trading products that suit you best.

    Goodluck and feel free to completely ignore my advice, LOL.
  9. Two observations that I just made are that you don't seem committed to any type of trading in particular, I wanted to trade futures or options and looked for such firms, but you appear to just want to day-trade at wherever they accept you. Trading at GHCO will be very different to trading at Echo for example.

    And you say that people bash it but the salary alone is effectively all that counts for a newbie. Well that is the wrong attitude IMO. It seems as though the desire for a salary will lead your decision making, IMO that is nowhere near as important as what you learn in the 1st year. I fear that you might not have properly considered what you want to trade and what motivates you to trade. But hey, its your life and so you can do whatever you believe best suits you, at least you can say that you was warned to consider all your options.
  10. kamdooo


    good advice.

    Some background on me may give you some insignt.

    gonna be out of school, complete newb. Have an FA position lined up with Morgan Stanley. (broker's ususally have a tough time starting, but this is a unique situation in that the people at MS are forming a team to handle the current client book. So i'm not prospecting or having to create something from nothing/calling. This makes for a genuine possibility to succeed, especially since the salary and training are provided unlike some other places. Its definitely safer than trading because of the team setup.)

    next up are some trading places. I've not applied to that many, i'm just seeing whats out there.

    I appreciate the advice. There are two things which concern me. Working at a place like Assent, its couldi just lose money. Working at HLV, i could just create commissions. Working at GHCO/SMW/salaried place, I get trained. Then all of the above could happen, but at least i'd be paid for it.

    Not to mention, the workspace at GHCO is quite impressive/aesthetically pleasing/modern. The other places I mentioned aren't too fancy...its just the bare bones. Nothing wrong with that, its just that if the company can afford to give you a nice place to work, a salary, and benefits, thats not bad.

    there is no way in hell i'd head for a prop shop like echo, assent, or bright as a newb. Thats for someone who's got the balls and cash to have confidence and experience in what they are doing.

    Obviously that is not me. Is that a character flaw? absolutely not. A lot of the traders I have met while visiting different shops were pretty arrogant. There was a lot of straight talk...perhaps a little too much. Hell...some just flat out lie. Just ask about a place like Assent and their "training"...all these places were going off about their "training".

    Hell...if you're going to lie to me, at least pay me a salary. Not that going to Assent doesn't have its benefits...its just that a newb is unlikely to reap any of them.

    edit: spoke to soon. Its not that I wouldn't put up my own cash if that was my only option. But if the choice is between a salaried position and putting up my own cash, as a newbe the choice is obvious.
    #10     May 11, 2005