Discussion in 'Educational Resources' started by rolextrader, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. Do you like the frenetic action of the ES? Does trading with a 15 point stop give you goosebumps? How about holding an overnite position with NO STOPS to get your blood pumping?

    Well, you can have that and more by subscribing to this $175/month call service and all the time know absolutely nothing of how or why it operates!

    I was drawn to this from a Google ad and recently took a free 7 day trial. It took place during the slow holiday period and I only observed it for a few days but that wouldn't have made much of an impact on my decision to continue regardless it the calls were good (they weren't) or bad (they were). What sealed the deal for me was the total lack of getting any additional additional information from the owners to complete my customary due diligence analysis of any mechanical system I consider--and this one wasn't going to be an exception especially given the short life of the system and it's trading parameters of (1) 15 point stop in this market; (2) no stop if position is held overnight; and (3) always in the market unless stopped out.

    So, I sent the owners a list of questions about the system that was not provided on the ulta-slick, promotional website. My questions were numerical and analytical in nature. I wasn't asking them to send me the code or divulge secrets. I needed to calculate key ratios--Sharpe, K, APD, etc--that are customary for these types of systems, especially one which wasn't even one year old.

    I thought my request was very reasonable, as any system developer worth his salt would surely crunch the numbers to get these figures themselves. My correspondence back and forth with Rob Mitchell was unproductive as he resisted producing the detailed statisitcs I required to figure out these key ratios. (Shit, even C2 calculates these on all their systems as a free service to subscribers.) Although I remanied professional, my frustration level grew and I realized he wasn't going to come up with the numbers.

    I guess Rob's attitude is it's better to have a room full of newbies who are dazzled with steep equity curves, not professionals who look behind the published stats for a forensice view of performance.

    After getting the runaround, I finally got the the heart of the matter and asked this:

    "I need time series data at some level of frequency, e.g., daily. It should show the daily market value of the equity devoted to the system, and the positions. Such data are necessary to compute the standard deviation of the value of the account. I also need this to compute the regression lines involved in the computation of the K ratio.

    I have no doubt that you, as a systems developer, have this information as I'm also certain that many of your sophisticated money management clients would also make this part of their customary due diligence before buying into any mechanical system. It's simply standard operating procedure as you well know."

    This is Rob's reply:

    "It is not standard procedure. I do not use such measures."

    And so the vendor beat goes on. I urge anyone who considers subscribing to this system conduct a thorough due diligence effort before buying it and, if you happen to get that information, please PM me.
  2. Oh, and here's another tidbit. The attachment is a copy from the website showing one of the developer's great trading days (I love when they cherrypick those for the public.)

    So, I asked if all those trades were all called by the system, which resulted in a 100 point day. Vadim emailed me and said that only 90 of the 100 points were generated by the system, so here we have a case of willful misrepresentation since there are no footnotes telling the reader all those trades are not generated by the GForce system.

    It's always the little things like this that, in the aggregate, give vendors the soiled reputation they not only earn, but deserve.
  3. Nagelis


    And yet, there are and will always be idiots who buy these toxic services...
  4. chifai2


    Yes. I agree GINA results are way off from the truth. If you take into commission and slippage, you are lucky to break even. Rob knows this and the history trades are not representation of the real LIVE trades. NOT even close. Subscriber beware.
  5. kjeb


    Sorry but your response simply points us all back to the same generic results that are being questioned in the other posts.

    You do not provide any specifics on these vertical equity curves you post on your web site.

    Let's see a list of all the past LIVE calls that Gina has made since the system actually went LIVE. Post that along with the P/L on each call....and add in a representative commission (yes, we ALL pay commission) based on 1 S&P emini contract.

    Let's see the good with the bad and the ugly. We can take it. After all we are Elite Traders!

    Oh and don't forget to update those past live calls right away on your web site so that trial member subsribers can see you are posting true results. After all this is the web and about 99.99% of all trading system web sites post inflated results. Not that I am saying that you would do such a thing because that would be dishonest. However we all know that dishonesty is the norm in the financial services business these days.

    Oh....and while you are at it why don't you tell visitors to your web site when Gina actually went live. You have posted equity curves going all the way back to 2000. All hypothetical backtesting.

  6. Vadim,

    What about all monthly statements since jan 2009 ?

    Why you only trade 1 lot for such an amazing system ?

  7. Who are these brokers ?

    What brokers offer auto-trade service ?

    What platform you use for auto-trading ?

    What is the name of your system with Striker ?
  8. geforcetraders is merely an offshoot of . just another means for vadim and and company to try and separate you from your money with more worthless junk. i was a subscriber some time ago and his stuff JUST DOESNT WORK ! PERIOD!

  9. just sign up with , then you see actual results reported by this broker

    GINA ES : may 2009 - august 2009 :178 points

    Maybe you signed up before this period..
  10. Alvin


    How's it doing so far today?
    #10     Sep 1, 2009