Getting out - Am I Doing the Right Thing

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Flashboy, Jul 16, 2003.

  1. bubba7

    bubba7

    His point is possibly a suggestion to you. My stop was at 992+ one tick at the end of the run.

    When I went out using the 5, I was picking off at least 2 more points than you did (that is 990.0) See my prior post as bubba7.

    When the 5 min trendline was broken below or at 990 a lot of people saw that the market pace shifted very significantly on the 5. On shorter bar durations it was more of the same as your posts point out.

    Most people who trade continually just shifted gears at or below 990 and went into a slalom mode which runs through midday at an hour per profit taking (long to 13:15 and short up to now.) Mostly 3 pointers.

    If you make an effort you can extend your profits and you can also, instead of sidelining do turns almost continually.

    Kap made a terrific observation. (he had moved all the way up to 15 for an exit.) thats why I queried him. I had only gone to 5 min.

    Not a good idea to brush off people who are running ahead of you.
     
    #31     Jul 16, 2003
  2. bubba7

    bubba7

    thanks I appreciate it.
     
    #32     Jul 16, 2003
  3. Relax man......it was an opinion statement. Scalping for two or three e-mini ticks in MY OPINION is a losing proposition.


    P.S. What's your problem man?


     
    #33     Jul 16, 2003
  4. That really depends how reliably you do it. If you have a system for doing it that wins 90-95% of trades and loses very small too, then it's a winning proposition.

    Best

    Natalie
     
    #34     Jul 16, 2003
  5. dbphoenix

    dbphoenix

    Have you been keeping something from me, Natalie? :p
     
    #35     Jul 16, 2003
  6. monee

    monee

    This is either not trusting your system or fear of loss.
    As far as fear of loss I have found that increasing my non trading income has helped stop my early exiting of trades.
    I went thru over and over again why could I successfully swing trade for the last 5 years and stay in for most of the move or get out somewhat after the top.My conclusion was that this was long term money that I won't use for living expenses and it's not like futures where I'm shooting to trade the account up to $1,000,000.
    So what I'm saying is with sufficient income besides trading and sufficient capital in your account you will not be so nervous about losing money you probably can not afford to lose.
    The thought will be it gets within x of my target I will close the trade otherwise let it sit and wait till 4pm est.
    And the targets should not be 2 points.

    To all:
    This is just my system and from ones analysis if they think the mkt is not going to trend they should not trade or have small targets.
    I don't take the trade if I have to have a small target.

    PS I know there are some successful scalpers,but its not me.
     
    #36     Jul 16, 2003
  7. How fundamentally true.
    I think one of the greatest handicaps for being a successful trader would be to be assuming or opinionated. A mistake we all make. But the less often, the better!

    One the secrets to trading, on the other hand, is to be flexible at all times - Rather than sticking to (unvalidated) maxims like he does, explore the possibilities!

    The ES can indeed be scalped - Even tighter than that!
    I tend to be ridiculously flexible in my trading - While most of the time, I look at 3-min charts to trade for 6+ points (with ~3pt SL),
    I will quite often also trade the 15-mins or dailies for position trades. But scalping, despite its "low" profits is nothing to sneeze at - simply because of its much higher reliability and lower risk (if you do it right!)

    I love to scalp when everybody else considers the market "rangebound" or "no conviction not worth it"

    Look at this:
    1. I've been in a pos trade short ES for almost 2 days now and it looks nice - but I might hold for 1-3 weeks, maybe longer!

    2. I shorted the ES on the open today, to play the gap (which is extremely reliable in terms of hitrate as I detailed in the previous post on this board) and because of initial overextension, fibs etc and no reversal, I just held on and locked in a nice profit. Using a 3pt stop.

    3. I scalped the ES over the last 2 1/2 hours. I made 14 trades and locked in 2.25 points. How? Watching the ask and bid on the ES while executing off 2m,1m & Tick-Charts (also 32Tick, 64Tick, 128Tick) - Watching the Ask/Bid is extremely reliable and very often tells the truth when the charts "lie"! The inside market leads the price! When I scalp like this, I go for profits between .25 and .75. My stops are 2-3 Ticks. Regardless of the enormous slippage / commission factor, due to its high hitrate it's the most reliable form of trading I know of.

    So much for the anti-scalping smartie you replied to :D

    By the way, this is how I started on the Nasdaq, and I sort of miss those days' point-per-point (stock!) action sometimes... :(
    Anybody remember "shadowing the ax", "bid staggering", "market fading", "head fakes" etc?

    Oh - And this is probably one of my best trading secrets: I tend to start off scalping with a large position, then take off some as soon as the ask is up a tick, then some more next tick to lock it in, and depending on whether the direction changes after 2-3 T or not, get out of the rest or just a few and hold on to a few (30-50%) for a larger scalp, setting the stop a little wider. I keep this going, "de-pyramiding" gradually, keeping fewer and fewer contracts for longer and longer timeframes. This way, I also get the larger moves! For example, I still had 20% of my initial all the way through to the close move today, starting with a bullish reversal scalp at 3:30!

    IMO, this is the finest way to benefit from the maximum amount of moves! Practice this on a simulator and be amazed... :cool:


    Trading is an awesome job. The only thing I'm scared of right now is myself - My last weeks have been so good on the futures, that I hope I don't step into the "overconfidence" trap.

    Maybe I should take a holiday and cool down a bit? Or maybe I should hang in as long as it's really good???

    Any fellow advice here on this issue is appreciated!


    And my sincere compliments to you Girlpower - You're a very wise Trader! Don't listen to dem nuttas here! :)


    Yours Sincerely,
    ~The Scientist
     
    #37     Jul 16, 2003
  8. But... Hrrrm...? 90-95% ?

    Hey Natalie - I'll be forever indebted to you if you show me how - or even just somebody else who can... :)

    Or does it just work in the UK?

    Well I'm off to trade the FTSE... :D


    All the Best
    ~Scientist
     
    #38     Jul 16, 2003
  9. With all due respect, bubba7 - You are right and you're wrong, too.

    For starters, his point wasn't a suggestion, but an insult.

    Second, OK you did the right thing. You had your stop 1T above mine. You made +2pts. This has nothing to do with the timeframe, though. 1, 3 or 5 min - I had a 3pt-stop. Presto? You had a 3.25 tick stop. Well you did the right thing. Maybe next time, your position will have a major breakout on that 1-tick penetration, while mine won't? You never know...

    Now, that I got stopped out with a 3pt trail, doesn't mean I'm upset that I "just" locked in 12pts? I mean, saying that a wider stop would as in larger timeframe would have been wise, is nice to say in hindsight bubba! What if the market went into reversal? How can you know? Personal bias? LOL! Besides, I went straight into scalping mode from there... So what?

    Besides, doesn't mean I went home after that! After the large morning move, I did some scalping for another point, plus another 2.25 points before the close. While you were looking at the larger timeframes, probably going "Oh well. Rangebound. Let's have lunch", I was standing here getting into the moves before you did (shorter TF).

    Shifting gears into larger timeframes can mean getting bigger moves. But it also means I can be long out of the move, you're still in longer and have a wider stop, thus more risk, ditto smaller position size.

    It's the difference between being a bird and a bee, you know. You can go further distance as a bird, but the bee can't hit the window and it can stop on the spot.

    Silly analogy? Well yeah you know what I'm getting at.

    Don't assume I'm a pro-scalping trader. I trade everything from 1-Tick to Dailies. I know what you're talking about.

    Don't pay out on me. I'm just defending a point that was commented on from a very short-sighted point of view;

    1-3 mins = nuts?
    I execute off 3m, 2m, 1m, 128T, 64T, 32T, 1T - HELLOOO???
    If you truly want to look at "market waves", you should have a look at tick charts!

    To be honest, bubba7, I appreciate your advice and you probably have made boatloads more than me today. But with a daily total of over 15 pts, I'm more than really happy. For my long-term trading average, that's almost a week's profits in a day! I don't complain. And now I'm going for the Globex session!


    Yours Respectfully,
    ~The Scientist :cool:
     
    #39     Jul 16, 2003
  10. Yeah - I wish too, but hey - it made the point didn't it :)

    best

    Natalie
     
    #40     Jul 16, 2003