Getting down and dirty is where the rubber meets the road ...

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by charts, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. The first 7 bars make up the three price moves of the pattern. There are a corresponding FOUR volume moves where volume leads price. The trader tooks first profits long and reversed short by the signals above cited.

    To hold to make money ensues.

    BO's are occurring as RTL's are crossed as the short ensues. These ALL are hold signals to the trader who is lookig for a volume peak which ends the R2R of his hold. depending upon skill, the whole pattern is traded or its components are traded.

    On the chart the volume annotations fail to help. Soon into bar 3, the fastest fractal RTL is drawn. This required a point 3 so we know point 2 is already established (not deployed for the LTL however). When The not annotated green on the bottom of bar 2 going into the future is broken on the increasing volume already known, the trasder knows that he knows short volume is DOMINANT VOLUME and he is looking for a relative peaking volume.

    The ve on the short move of the R2R confirms the hold yet once again. We are makin bacon. the close gives the "in the zone' signal and we know we have two moves, m1 and m2 coming up (long and short, respectively). We know the m1 and m2 are non dom and dom, respectively as well. we are well after point 3 and we know an ftt follows.

    All this adds up to nailing the ftt and going long to the end of m1. we do the Hershey hinge and annotated the RTL of m1 and put in the LTL as well so we can see the ftt of the m1 clearly on this non dom declining volume move.


    1. The volume annotation needs fixing prior to the fine black volume segment.

    2. We will see bar 6 has the wrong coloration according to the nine cases.

    The thrader goes short by reversing on the ftt of m1 to take the ride on m2. There are seven leading indicators of the ftt occurring.

    There are other further indications of just what is up here. Bar 6 begins as a black bar after the BO of the RTL of m1. 12 seconds into the bar we know that we know the bar is dominant and dominant is red. we are looking for point 3 on the next slower fractal as well. so we green across from the ftt to "SEE" if the ftt is busted. When it is, we continue to hold short to get to the new ftt and point 3 is tentatively set.

    It is locked in (pt 3) as the bar 6 changes color to grey indicating an OB and that the bar will set in place point 2 of the fastest fractal on this bar.


    1. Color OB's as cases; this is the two point bar in a pattern.

    We are short and after an ftt and WAY after the RTL of m1. we are annotaing m2 and looking for an FTT on the middle fractal (for beginners this is the trading fractal and from open beginners have been short following the FTT created by the missing carry over. Some people will take exception since and ftt (FTT) cannot occur on a VE (VE) and FTT's are where reversals, and entries occur. the entry, for these people is on the m2 ending after the VE (Top of bar 6).

    Lets work with the annotations we have and straighten them out bar after bar.

    The fast fractal after point 3 is annotaed except for the ve and the accelerated LTL. When you put in an RTL for acceleration, you also add the LTL to be able to SEE the ftt of the accelerated faster fractal. Beginners SEE the FTT on bar 7; experts see a ve on the fast fractal. Each trades accordingly and for different reasons. Both are long.

    m1 and m2 occur and a new FTT is in. Ity is not abelled and the green from the original FTT is not shown nor is the original FTT. Below the volume does not reflect any of this either.

    The new FTT is an extension where a cancellation on the fast fractal has occurred. Notice as well as the bar 7 developed that you had relative peaking volume right from the start of the bar.

    This means we have put in a whole middle trading fractal by the end of bar 7. About a 30 minute short trade. The reversal on the unmarked FTT. Experts have seen the bar 8 fast fractal ftt as well.

    So far some ticks have been left on the table and the routine has worked well and I have not introduced any of the seven leading indicators that make carving the turns more effective.


    1. Annotae the ftt's and the FTT's.

    2. Log on three levels of fractals in terms of V and P.

    3. always note the realtive volume max's when you get 12 seconds in to the bar. be sure you have PRV shadow on volume to do this.


    Do logs for the 50 sheets of the 10 days done five times over. This puts your learning 10 days ahead of schedule. To do this, get the prior 10 days of K200 and do the work.
    #21     Apr 12, 2010
  2. If you’d be so kind to elaborate on this assertion, please.

    1. What is referred to as the V move?
    2. What is referred to as the P move?
    #22     Apr 12, 2010
  3. Must be this:

    V(olume): B(=1)-2(=2)-B(=3)-2R(=4). 4 moves in volume
    P(rice): Pt1(=1), Pt2(=2), Pt3(=3). 3 moves in price
    #23     Apr 12, 2010

  4. Completing a short on the trading fractal and having the relative peaking volume in means we are calibrated for the day. we are proceding through the daily catenary of volume, as well. the merging of these two things is the consideration of patterns and PACE represented by the catenary.

    If you complete a short pattern, then you are annotaing a long pattern next. you orient to B2B 2R 2B on the trading fractal. Each part is observable as a pattern on the fast fractal.

    SKO will go through changing the relationship of V and P from what he is doing to that of the pattern. He will complete 10 copies of the pattern to get started on this. By going form left to right instead of just drawing pictures, he will begin to build a wall in front of his current first recourse. the wall is made of the correct pattern. There is no erasing vis a vis the mind. Memories, if handled at all, are handled when a person changes significant others. Memeories are still there BUT the new partner holds sway as the first recourse.

    Here we are sitting long on bar 8.

    Annotations on bars 9 through 12 or so are incorrct in some ways.

    by logging the progress of a bar, a person gets to see the changing scene.


    So log several times within each five minute bar from now on

    Bar 9 sets the new FTT early in the bar. It goes red at some point, then goes black after that. Log these events as you hold long.

    Knowledge of the pattrn tells you that you are in declining volume coming out of the new FTT. Bar 10 gets you to the RTL of the first traded middle fractal. Volume is steady and not dominant during the overlap with the short dominant container we are getting ready to leave.

    In sumary, there is bar 9 as an outside bar which contains two points on the fast fractal. Non dominat translation follows on bar 10. On bar 11, as you log you record dominant black volume the end the B2B of the trading fractal. we reach point 2 of the long on the trading fractal. Non dominat red volume ensues to take us to point 3 of the long. (it is incorrectly labelled FTT and has a green going from it ofr some reason).

    So you see this chart is IMPORTANT and is a good effort of the poster, SKO. He gets the benefit of doing the work to post it. It is being tweaked in a sense by pointing out how to do the chaet based upon the paradigm and its pattern.

    As a look ahead we will see that SKO's persistent annotation gets him to the right place most of the time. If he trades the small things we are tweaking, he just makes small brief profits as he corrects his work. It is not a case of not making money but rather a case of improving the making of money.

    Over time as a person does the details of "building the neted fractals" he gets the urge to trade more frequently and take more profits per day.

    In a cursory way you see that the trading long can be annotated better and this leads to a VE at the point currently labelled 2 (point 2 is labelled new pint 3). Handleing the VE allows for an accelerated long RTL and this acceleration is showing as the lng trading fractal container.

    by having the short FTT and the long FTT, it is possible to put in the slower of the three nested fractals (by using the top of bar 1 as the container point 1.

    This means that the first trading pattern short is dominant in the slower container and the second long trading pattern is non dominant in the slower container. This means we would expect the nect trading pattern to be dominant and the relative volumes would be picking up. This has to be moderated according to the daily catenary of the RTH which defines the market PACE.

    Anyone who wishes can take my notes and annotate the V and P for the clean chart originally posted. what you have whne you finish is a current chart that is using the pattern on three fractal levels. Until we got to within five bars of the end we did not have the points 1, 2 and 3 of the slower fractal container. From now on this can be used as we go forward.

    Thanks for the strong effort SKO.
    #24     Apr 12, 2010
    Sprout likes this.
  5. Damn, Jack hits the gas pedal and the only thing I see is the smoke of the burning tyres while he drives away. :confused: Jack, wait for me...

    Until Jack posted his critique I thought SK0's chart looks fine (thanks SK0). But when he started to talk about VEs at the first bars which I didn't see I decided to give it a try myself.

    I only annotated the fastest level together with the corresponding guassians but I fear there are still some mistakes. Please have a look.

    #25     Apr 12, 2010

  6. I use the CW term move to mean going form A to B where A and B have cordinates like (p,t) for price and (v,t) for volume. A and B usually have different coordinates.

    For the pattern I use 1, 2, 3 and FTT to label the segments (moves of price point to point) For volume I use P and T to represent Peaks and Troughs (moves of volume point to point).

    A price move is a profit segment from one part of the price lebels to the next price label. For me, there are three moves to complete the pattern in price.

    Volume leads price.

    The first move in price is either B2B or R2R. It has two volume moves associated with it: non dominant and then dominant. A non dominant volume move is from a Peak to a Trough. Correspondingly, a dominant volume move is from a Trough to a Peak.

    The second and third pattern moves are in V and P correspondence. Correspondence means 1 to 1. The second move in the pattern is non dominant for volume and a counter trend for price.

    The third move in the pattern (from point 3 to FTT for price) is dominant and WITH the trend of the pattern.

    Everything I have been advocating is related to "KNOWOMH THAT YOU KNOW'. The subject of knowing that you know is the pattern.

    By deductive reasoning using the HS and its PM, a critical thinking person decductivel reason through using logic (Carnap) that only one pattern exists and there is no noise nor anomalies.

    to transfer this from one person to another, the objective is to build in the mind a finite mathematically based non probablitistic set of inference. Inference, from long term memory" arises always to "match" what is being sensed.

    three operators in the brain are involved. they are the same as for driving a car of reading. the operators are spatial, movement and patterns.

    So you ask what movement is.

    Movement is change in the locus of the coordinates of a variable.

    We use a display in space and it is simple because it is two dimensional. only a one dimensional model would be simpler. There is a spatial steeing and the chat moves to the right as time passes. the forming place is 1/3 of the way from the right. It is NOT on the right side of the display.

    If a person puts it on the right side he cannot see the annotations that extend into the future and are sold viewable entities put into place by the trader in advance of MOVEMENT. Movement takes place in these containers. Three nested containers are used for the residence of the locus of movement.

    The mind's operator for patterns is in constant usage. Making money is done ALL the time. Movement is the price characteristic from which net profits are obtained.

    Here we see today that charts can be annotated. there is a rule set for annotating. It is possible to use it.

    When a person has annotated and the annotations in the future move into the Present, he knows that he knows. He perceives.

    Perception is the sum of two things as far as the mind is concerned. One pipeline of information comes from a chart. It is sensing the chart.

    Sensing the chart does not mean a fucking thing.

    The other ingredient is what adds into the situation to yield perception. this ingredient is supplied from organized long term memory. It is called inference. Random inference popping up is what you are percieving from reading, probably.

    My effort for 50 years or so has been to help people build their minds so they can see the markets. I am attempting to build inference and organized inference. This complete and fully organized set of inference is called "differentiation".

    Suppose a person knows what B2B 2R 2B means. suppose he knows it is an order of events. This means he knows how the (p,t) locus unfolds. He also knows how the (v,t) locus unfolds. Futher he knows the differentiation of the pair of loci. {(p,t);(v,t)}.

    This is a combo of spatial, movement and patterns. It is what you do to read and to drive a car.

    In trading almost NO ONE can do this. These people DO NOT have differentiated minds. In other words they cannot think as they view the markets. These people have NO PERCEPTION because they have no inference to match with what they see.

    Most traders try to make up rules to trade by. THEY FAIL AS A CONSEQUENCE.

    Thee are rules for annotation and there are not rules for trading for one reason.

    THE REASON THERE ARE NOT RUES FOR TRADING IS THAT CONTEXT IS A PARAMOUNT CONSIDERATION. (See talontrader to observe a person who cannot get context in any way whatsoever.)

    I am explaining to you the basis of the impotance of movement and its relationship to space and shapes.

    we have it down to 9 cases for adjacent bars. This is shapeness. We build nested containers. This defines two spaces: important and other. Time is a factor for trading with data that is non continuous and has granularity. That is why cases are dictated and finite math is dictated.

    We CHOOSE binary vectors to be able to operate in non probabilitstic information theory.

    I am buiulding a musical scale for the information of trading a two dimensional space which shows movement in an order of events determined to be the solution to a problem through deductive reasoning.

    So far the Pattern is not understood as shown by the ratio of movements of price and volume.

    The posted chart shows three price moves and three volume moves. The pattern shows three price moves and four volume moves. To understand this comment a person has to know what a move is. So you ask what a move is. That is a beginning.

    On the illustration posted and labelled move show as line segments that have direction. You may read the direction anyway you want if you get to see direction as a time based entity. That is as time passes the segments get longer. It is not reversable. You cannot back up in time, in other words.
    #26     Apr 12, 2010
    Sprout likes this.
  7. See below comment to rom
    #27     Apr 12, 2010
  8. What you can do is go back and read the SCT thread which has a syllabus for that year.

    Get a pic of the 9 cases and keep it there before you.

    Do the drills suggested.

    doing just the fast fractal is not too productive.

    Neither is my posting an answer sheet.

    This thread at some point will focus on the K200 market.

    As seen, a beginner is doing trades of 30 to 60 minutes each and they span the ATR of the market each. Knocking off 3 or four of these a day is very productive.

    I really can't put the rubber to the road here just yet since there is still little perception of the market.

    But I shall try to get to acceleration, expansion ans fanning since it occurs daily on the bar processions.
    #28     Apr 12, 2010
  9. Lets deal with the rubber meeting the road here. This is the "shakey anticipation here"

    We have seen that we completed a short and a long for beginners and Experts can easily trade point to point on the trading fractal.

    Where you get shakey is after the FTT and you are short.

    Why are we roling along in the manner we are?


    This chart shows the pattern (R2R 2B 2R) in volume and price.

    We are in the second move of three moves of the pattern. We are looking for the ftt of the second move.

    Look at the PACE of volume.

    Look at the OB shadow that determined your FTT to end the long pattern. We are in the shadow and no money is being made relative to the ATR. An expert would be long looking to trade the volatility of the shadow where the fast pattern is unfolding. He is well over the 2x ATR by now having traded point to point on the prior two trading fractal patterns (He is in trade 9).

    We are prepping for the third move of the fast fractal of the last trading move of the slow outer fractal according to your chart. This is a heirarchy of moves, some dominant some non dominant, in volume terms.

    All the above is tempered by your second long trading fractal annotations; you actually get to this place a little differently as I will show you in an annotated chart later.

    this post takes the skakes out of the anticipation. there is no betting but only anticipation as the order of events unfolds.

    You are right there in the groove at this point. It is just tweak time and that will remove shakiness permanently.
    #29     Apr 12, 2010
  10. Could somebody please post the extended chart of FDAX we are dealing here that goes back a day and forward a day -- looking at this snippet is like trying to pick the most beautiful women in a pagent by looking at their arm pits only.:D Thank you.
    #30     Apr 12, 2010