Get mad if you INVEST

Discussion in 'Trading' started by nitro, Feb 3, 2002.

  1. Nitro

    I said "more power to you" and I meant it. I hope you accomplish something but I have been watching scandals come and go for many years and nothing changes but the names and faces. I just cant get worked up about it anymore.:)
    #11     Feb 3, 2002
  2. nitro



    I went to

    There, I selected "Power Lunch." I do not know if this is even the best place. Perhaps the Wall Street Journal would be better, but then, how many read that paper that don't already know Wall Street and its relation to investors is one big con game?

    It seems that these people have no shame, and shaming them is not enough. I really don't know what will stop them...

    #12     Feb 3, 2002
  3. oolarinm


    This is standard on wall street , I am not sure there is anything we can do to help . I remember when the market opened after sept 11 all this guys started comming on TV advising investors to be patriotic and buy stocks while they ( big institutions ) were selling . But that is life .
    #13     Feb 3, 2002
  4. compaque


    Nitro, I applaud your intentions here, but I have to side with Easy. I take it you've read "Reminiscences" - hyping, lying, and manipulation is as old as the markets. It's just a part of human nature to try to fleece your neighbor.

    On the other hand, if the situation gets so out of hand that even the "fleecers" start losing money, that's when change occurs, e.g., after the '29 crash, or maybe a little bit now with the Enron mess. If public confidence is so rattled that the public avoids the markets, then the hypesters and politicians all have a profit interest in "honesty" and "transparency." At least until the public forgets again. :D
    #14     Feb 4, 2002
  5. To add insult to injury, a lot of those sellers had friends and/or colleagues who perished in the attacks. I found that utterly repugnant.
    #15     Feb 4, 2002
  6. nitro


    Think about it. This isn't just some pump and dump type scenario - this is the equivalent of a Sept. 11 on Investors everywhere.

    What happened at Enron (and believe me, there are other "Enrons" out there - it may even become a verb one day) is a pyramiding scheme that when all is said and done is going to being exposed as a big "ponze scheme" that will implicate more than Enron, Arthur Andersen, JP Morgan Chase, etc. It is so well "planned" that it even goes as far as companies lobying towards making the SEC so weak that it cannot "police" them!

    I am not so naive to believe that this doesn't and hasn't gone on for a long time, but if the ranking smell of the state of "Wall Street" doesn't set off major warning lights in your mind if you invest, well then, God save all those amongst us that have retirement plans in what we believe to be "America's Best Companies!"

    I know what you mean that it won't change until it hurts "them," _THAT_ is exactly why people involved in this have to loose "everything" they have, and never, and I mean never, be able to work in the industry again.

    #16     Feb 4, 2002
  7. BruceF


    I always cringed when I heard earnings being reported on TV. After they read the announcement, they would then follow it up with we'll have to really examine the report to see what they actually did. The scary part is that US accounting reporting standards are probably the highest in the world.

    At least it provides volatility for the daytraders. :D
    #17     Feb 4, 2002
  8. Having been in Public Accounting for years, and of course this industry fo decades, I have a couple of things to add to this mess.

    We have been preaching the idiocy of listening to the "advisors" "analysts" "brokers" "talking heads" and all the rest for years....and yet I find that I am still astounded by the levels that the predators fall to in the industry.

    Accounting principles have been so watered down that only the good guys get hassled (for the sake of "looking" proper), while the scam artists continue to find new schemes for the accountants to try to hide. We have always encouraged "investors" and others to learn how to read accounting documents for themselves....and even if they did, they would still be getting screwed due to the poor practices by major firms.

    Knowing all this takes place makes trading a lot easier, but it still speaks poorly of our system of "checks and balances" for the private sector. If we can't believe financial statements, then we can't do any fundamentals analysis, and if the pricing of the stocks is skewed, then all the TA is useless, so we have to rely on the basics of tape reading to make money...which is fine for us traders, but at what cost to the rest of the public.

    No answers here......
    #18     Feb 4, 2002
  9. TGregg


    I've always thought of the stock market as a giant Ponzi Operation. AFAIK, here are the three ways money gets in the market:

    1. Companies pay dividends
    2. Somebody buys stock
    3. Companies buy back their own stock, or another's.

    Now, #1 is so small it's not worth talking about. And, #2 happens only if that somebody thinks #2 will happen again (bigger fool theory), or #3 will happen.

    But, #3 doesn't happen very much, does it? If it does, that's great, and I'd be very happy to see that the market actually might be a good place to invest long term. But if it doesn't, then it's a big Ponzi con, and you need more and more investors and more and more money to cotinue to build it up. Which might explain the government's interest to bring some Social Security money into the market.

    Especially when you factor in all the money drainage, like commisions, information, all the money the big trading companies make, etc. If there is anything I know about money, it's that you don't get it from nothing.

    It seems to me that the average long term investor is really being taken for a ride.
    #19     Feb 4, 2002
  10. I don't think Milken will ever work in the industry again but then, with over half a billion in net worth, I suppose he doesn't much care. It amazes me how these guys always seem to land on their feet, ultimately.
    #20     Feb 4, 2002