Have you actually seen Fontanills putting on live trades, seen his (audited) account statements? Have you looked in the mirror lately? Have you seen the same for his students? If not then how can you say he and his students are making money? Show me the money. Everything you have posted so far is an obvious infomercial. Anyone who has been around ET for a while could pick this out easily. You registered the same day you started posting to defend Fontanills and all your posts are made to that end. On the one hand you make the obvious marketing pitch, Of course you'd love it if people took the whole seminar as you wouldn't have to give them their money back, right? While on the other hand you defend the fact that Fontanills has refused to refund money to some users because they didn't "qualify": So there is no risk, guaranteed profits but if he doesn't refund the money it's your own fault eh? You're also a seller of statistical software? And you wish people would buy the software directly from the manufacturer, and you also just happen to be an expert in the industry eh? You wouldn't be trying to increase your profit margins by selling direct rather than through a resale operation would you George?
First off as for george angell is concerned check out this link. Now again I read his books and they were interesting. But this is difficult to accept. http://www.cftc.gov/files/enf/02orders/enfangell-order.pdf Hey, here is a question for Mr. Camp what is in the paid for part of the seminar that was not in the tapes or the free part of the presentation. What secrets were held back. Just one would be nice? If you can't give the details give us something to help us identify it as a unique "trade secret" quality. Anyone care to state that there are trade secrets revealed by George. If not my earlier posts stands. Good refresher stuff, pretty well put together. If you have more money than time perhaps it is worth it. Finally, how has the world beating fund that George was running and publically hyping a few years ago doing. Is it still doing well?
Since I know a thing or two about options, I'll drop a dime on this conversation. First off, there is nothing new about options. OK? They haven't changed in the last 29 years. They are the same as when calls first started trading on the CBOE in 1973. There have been no new developements. I would run fast away from anyone that says they have something new to tell you about options that hasn't been written about the last 30 years. Next thing, options cannot be learned at a seminar or in a classroom. You may learn how they can be put togethor but until you've made 5,000 to 10,000 trades you will not have even the foggiest clue as to why they respond and change value the way they do. OK, last thing. I can assure you this, that the few people in this world that know how to take money out of options, do not talk. They do not talk. They do not sell their ideas on TV, they do not sell their ideas at seminars and they don't even tell their buddies at the bar. They keep their mouth shut and when people ask them how their options trading is coming along they answer with a simple, "It's going well."
From two customers of Fontanills/Angel day trading system only (not Optionetics course but sheds some light on "Fontanills the vendor"): ---- Begin Quote ---- >Those of us (and there are quite a few) that got ripped off by George >with his Market Insiders Trading System find that they are compelled >to warn others about Fontanills. > >If you were cheated by someone, would you not feel morally responsible >to warn others when you see the same guy selling systems again? > >I know nothing about the Optionetics course, but I know alot about the >man hawking it, and believe me, it is a tale of broken guarantees and >a bucket load of frustration and aggravation. > I whole hardely agree. George took in $100 of thousands from the market insider course and software. The program was a disaster and many of us got burned when we could not get refunds as PROMISED. Before you fall in love with someone because of one experience - or the recomendations of those that liked him - take the time to listen to the "rest of the story" (apologies to Paul Harvey). If Optionetics is all that it is claimed - SO WHAT. The man selling it has proven to be not trustworthy to those that put their faith in him in the past. Let him defend him self to those that he is responsible to - and leave your uneducated opinions to your self when you deny others' personal experience. Maybe you can acknowedge that you don't know enough to attack those who know better about the man - and this is what has been expressed, not opinions about the most recent "do-dad" he is selling. ---- End Quote ----
The above were some salient posts from misc.invest.options. There are lots more but I tried to filter comments that had more content then "it's a total ripoff" or "take your money and run"; and also included posts from actual customers . Those were the ones available on Google. I've got lots more in my archives but it's a pain to dig through that old computer. Google claims they have complete archive but so many of the good threads from 1990-1995 (when the trading vendor scene was in high gear with the rising popularity of charting software) is not archived on Google.
Thanks for the link showing the complaint against George Angel. I must admit that George Angel was also guilty of over inflated claims in his promotional literature. I didn't want to bash him because he has been out of the scene for quite some time now and I couldn't see any point in it. George Fontanils rode George Angel's coat tails in the early nineties as Fontanils was an unknown and George Angel was somewhat of an authority to many people. That association led to the Market Insider Series of seminars and software. When I called Angel down in Key West seeking a refund many years ago, George told me how he and Fontanils had split and he had no kind words about Fontanils. I didn't push the refund any further because I thought maybe Fontanils would honor their, "we'll keep working with you until you become a successful trader" guarantee. I called Fontanils and told him that the Market Insider Series strategies that were taught at the seminar were losers and that I had back tested the strategies on TradeStaion and that I found they were overwhelming net losers. His argued that I must have programmed the strategies wrong. I assured George that was not the case, I could graphically verify that my programming was correctly buying and selling according to the Market Insider rules. I asked George as a compromise (since he refused to refund any money as was promised), why not let me attend the Optionetics seminar as he had promised unlimited reattendance to the Market Insider seminars and they were no longer. He wouldn't do it. If he was a credible businessman, I believe he would have. It was certainly a reasonable compromise and it wouldn't have cost him hardly anything. I continue to get his shit in the mail and now I just throw it out. I know he isn't credible. The only marketing ploy he hasn't used yet is depicting himself out on a yacht with beautiful big breasted, bikini-clad women hanging all over him. Maybe they just can't find any women that would want to get within 2 feet of him. He is an ugly bastard and with all his money, you would think he'd fix his teeth. Why the CFTC or some other agency hasn't caught up with him is a mystery to me. He is certainly guilty of everything Angel was guilty of and more. George Fontanils is con man and should have been shut down years ago. I bet that he has been responsible for a mind numbing amount of loses in the markets both that of his clients as well as his own (which is really his clients money collected from the seminars).
Dottom, thanks for posting all of the Fontanil customer complaints. You have done your fellow traders a good service. Keep up the good work.