I believe the firm's name has actually been changed to Genesis Investment Trading rather than Genesis Investment Parnters... They actually have a website too, although it's just one page and still in the works I assume: http://www.gentradellc.com/Home_Page.html
Over the past two weeks I've gotten about 10 PMs asking about the firm, therefore I just chose to copy/paste and put together my previous responses to the potential candidates that PMed me earlier... Here it is: Hi, It's pretty funny because in this past week I've gotten about five messages from people like yourself asking about the firm... I'm assuming you googled "Genesis Investment Partners/Traders" and found elitetrader.com and just recently signed up (0 posts)... lol Anyway, I will copy/paste several of the previous e-mails I sent out to other people like yourself... It's a LONG compilation of diff. letters, so if your confused about something feel free to message me again... Hope this will help: I had two interviews at Genesis, the second of which at the conclusion I was offered a position. Anyway, Genesis Investment Trading appears to be a reputable firm. The interview was actually conducted in the Access Securities office (does arbitrage, executs orders for hedge funds) of the building. Genesis is just a new start up and affiliate of Access, so it certainly makes it appear rather legit in comparision to other prop firms. Regarding the interview, they asked more psychological questions, attempting to guage my personality (whether I was aggresive, a team player and tolerance for risk). Nevertheless, they also questioned some aspects of my education (I was a political science major), my internships (one of which was at Merrill and they asked me to describe my roles and experience there) and also about life experiences (i.e biggest challenge in my life). They also wanted someone that was very determined and interested in the markets, the stock market in this case, but experience was not necessary. They made it known that the training was very intense... Series 7 is not required, unless you get moved to Global Markets (Access Securities: where the real players trade thebig money). So from my short experience, it seems like a good place. They're in the process of selecting about 24 candidates apparently, and the start date is only July 7th so just take my account as one opinion. In terms of other prop firms, it surely appears respectable. I'm not sure of your experience with prop firms, but there are many sketchy places that basically fool young traders and just hire them to profit from their commisions. The commissions at Genesis were decent (can't recall exact figures though). More importantly, there is no initial contribution. Perhaps the most significant aspect is that they provide three months worth of training for free. Only if you are profitable will you be able to trade with their money, so theorytically only then will you pay commissions to them. A somewhat disappointing aspect is that it is initially a 50:50 payout, but increases with consistency. This is rather low in the industry, but on a better note, it somewhat signifies that this firm is respectable because the sketchy firms are generally the ones that advertise high (95%) payout rates. To the question whether you are willing to change careers, thats a tough call. I just graduated from a liberal arts college less than a month ago, so I basically have no money. Although I live on Long Island and the firm is 50 miles away, I will have to move to CT so I have time to focus on the training and I will be too exhausted from studying the market to travel in traffic five times a week and pay $10 on tolls (daily) + gas, so my parents are going to have to support me and pay for my apartment and other expenses. My point is that there will be expenditures and if you don't have the money or the luxury of relatives from funding this venture, I would stay with your other finance job. You can always get a prop position later in the future when you are more financially stable. Also, you must remember that the majority of traders fail. On the other hand, the upside is that you can eventually become extremely profitable at a very young age (well in the 6 figures) if you are a consistently successful trader. Also, in this job, there is also no office politics; performance is based on the money you make. You also have freedom to work whenever you want, and what you trade... This is all true as long as you are profitable! About their trading strategy, you can develop your own (provided that you are profitable and don't take stupid risks) but in the beginning its all day trading. In training they teach conservative methods (chose market leaders and trade on momentum type stuff; hold positions for 10 seconds, 10 minutes, several hours) and I believe this is how they will like the traders to work long-term. Well I hope that helped and I didn't bore you too much... I have had several people e-mail me with similar questions, so I was able to copy/paste some of the text... P.S. Don't expect a salary at any prop firm. I have only known of two or three places that offer a salary (i.e Shaw, First Securities). These places generally hire IVY league and sometimes candidates must possess their MBAs... If you are relatively new to the industry, check out the following site to see how prop firms operate: http://www.tradersnarrative.com/lis...-firms-735.html In my opinion, Genesis provides a good deal (no initial contribution, free training for three months, affiliation to legit firm, no tech fees, etc.)... If I fail to become a profitable trader, I think the training is worth the experience nevertheless. You'll have access to market technology and experienced individuals. In sum, I view all the expenditures as an investment with a good risk/reward ratio. Good luck!
Hey guys I also just recieved an interview offer from them for next week. So basically what I am getting from this is that they do not pay you anything for the training or working there, its all commission based?
No salary... all commission based provided you are proftible in the first place (you get 50%). Remember that you also have to pay commissions and access for Nasdaq/NYSE quotes too. Basically, if you're not profitable, you will be losing money. Don't look at the prop industry as a job, but rather as a service for you. They suppy you with the money (leverage) and also training. If you are profitable you both win. If not, you lose, but at least the firm has your commission dollars.
MUST READ for anyone interested in the prop-firm industry! Good and recent information about prop firms (a lot of info on potentially sketchy aspects too): http://www.greencompany.com/PropTraders/Traders.shtml
Hey Monty, do you have any information about the training period other than its 3 months. Is it held in stamford, is it daily and if so what hours? Are you put through any exams or is your success only determined by how much play money you make trading??
I assume training is 3 months because thats what they said, but I am still not 100% sure. I am supposed to receive an information packet, so I will know exactly then. In terms of licenses, you don't need any in the beginning so there are no exams. I don't know the hours and days, but I'm certain is five days a week and probably 8 hours a day, if not more. It's supposed to be intense. I'm here to learn, so the more, the better. I also cannot answer the question about money, but it is based solely on performance. In all honesty, I just want to be profitable... just be in a plus rather than in a minus. If I am profitable, I can't even really gauge how much money I could make because I don't even know how much money I would have to start trading with. For example, if I had $100,000 and had a great return of 100%, I would probably only make $25,000 (100,000 net profit, 50/50 split so I would get 50,000; then minus the commission costs which would probably be around $17,250 and also minus taxes). If I started with $500,000 and had an incredible 100% return, then it would be much higher obviously (although taxes would take a big cut) but probably around $100,000 profit. So its a matter of how much money they give me to trade and how I am leverged. The more important factor, however, is performance. I swing trade and this is a day trading firm, so I can't compare my performance. I don't know what returns I can realistically make in a year (with little experience). 100% is possible, but very difficult for a new trader. Remember that fund managers are happy to make 30% a year (though they manage millions of dollars so it is much more difficult for them to trade). Also the traders at firms like Goldman are also content to make 30% a year. They also don't pay any commissions and are not reasponsible for losses. In the prop firm industry that Genesis is in, however, you pay for commissions and losses. You have to make over 30% to make just a little money. It's basically a leverged retail account. Big risks!
I don't know what all the hoop-la is all about. This is the same business model as Swift Trade, actually it's worse because at least Swift lets you trade in the begining (I believe). Seems like Genesis only funds you if you are profitable, wonder what happens to you if you are not profitable...There is really not too much risk on their side. With the recent regulatory changes in the equity world these LLC's only have 2 choices: 1. is tell/hire traders to fund with 30k or 2. they set up a true prop model and back their traders with limited risk on their side after a serious vetting process (i.e kick you to the curb after 3mon if you are not making "paper" money) of the newbies. Out of the 24 people they hire they will keep 2 to rake over the coals with high comm and horrible payout structure. Just like the good old days again....
Theres no hoop-la about this firm. Considering it is a start-up and theres no information on the web we're just attempting to decipher whether it is a suspecious or legit business based on what we know. If you actually google Genesis Investment Partners or Genesis Investment Traders, the first search result it shows is this elitetrader thread so its important to get accurate info here and decide its legitimacy considering this is the only place to get info. No one said the firm was special in any way.