Gas price rises - where's the REAL debate??

Discussion in 'Politics' started by jbtrader23, Aug 30, 2003.

  1. trdrmac

    trdrmac

    I am not so sure that capitalism and good social/environmental policy can't be consistent at some level.

    About two months back I ran into a guy who used to have a plumbing business but recently moved into a business where he gets paid to suck the dirty oil from restaurant grease traps.

    Two weeks ago a college friend of mine who now lives in Vermont came to do some work in the area. He was telling me about some friends who had put a converter on a VW Diesel that allows it to burn GUESS WHAT???? Used cooking oil.

    So here you have business that has a COST that could be turned into a REVENUE.

    Now I am not saying the whole nation could run on french fry grease, but likewise I am not convinced we can continue to prosper as a country with same old same old.

    Shit if I could be guaranteed that I never have to wittiness another 9-11 I would gladly buy a bus pass.
     
    #11     Sep 4, 2003
  2. I'd be happy if they just taxed them the same as cars. There's no luxury tax. No gas guzzler tax. And huge tax breaks for 5000+ lb SUVs owned by small businesses because of dumb loopholes they refuse to close. What a joke.
     
    #12     Sep 4, 2003
  3. trdrmac

    trdrmac

    I had read an article about this and you are sooo right!!!!

    My opinion of Capitalism is that it should produce an efficient allocation of resources. This sort of tax policy seems to fuel the same sort of decisions we saw in the 80s real estate and junk boom as well as the 90s tech boom and now perhaps housing boom..
     
    #13     Sep 4, 2003
  4. cable

    cable

    Capitalism is about EFFICIENCY - Working towards maximum profit through maximum efficiency while creating the best possible product. When your competition bests you, you go back to the drawingboard and improve in order to stay alive. You improve your design, you streamline your process, you find a new untapped market or new uses for your technology. Because of your increased efficiency, you can cut your prices in order to grab market from your competitor. And then he does the same to you, beginning a cycle that ends with the best product at the best price, and a profit level that corporations are willing to accept. That is "traditional" capitalism. Needless to say, that is nearly dead.

    The "New American" Capitalism is about *waste and hubris* and abusing monopoly power.

    Build a skyscraper far too high out of pride, costing 6x what a more reasonably designed building would have cost. Raise prices on goods to compensate.

    Buy the biggest gas-guzzling SUV possible, and get one for the missus rather than (heaven forbid!) carpool (City driving only - Point A to Point B).
    Complain about increased gas prices because of EVERYBODY ELSE using too much gas.

    Cheat on all taxes even though they're practically nothing, far less than the rest of the major industrialized nations with a lower quality of life. At the same time, complain about the crappy roads, lack of healthcare, and not enough "missile shields" to make you and your mansion feel safe at night.

    Buy potentially tainted British Beef at 10 cents on the dollar and make a killing selling McBurgers to the Third World.

    Don't price your product at a reasonable profit point compared to your cost of manufacturing; take polls on "what the market is willing to bear" and charge that price instead - thereby refusing to pass along any benefits of improved efficiency to your customers.

    Start a diamond or gas cartel; consult with your buddies about how you can collectively hold society hostage through price fixing. As mentioned, holiday weekends and gas prices are a sure thing. Place your bets, you can't go wrong.

    Software should "call home" and report what users have installed on their computer, and when they click "I agree" to their EULAs they surrender any rights whatsoever to the product they "own". Purposefully write incompatibilities into software to shut out competition. And don't fix the bugs - bug fixes will be a major advertising point for the next version, even as you introduce 50,000 NEW bugs.

    In the old days, companies would win by producing the best product at the lowest price. Now, Microsoft lobbies the government to put legal restrictions on their competition rather than fixing their product. People are patenting completely ridiculous things, like catalogs on the internet, shopping on the internet, filling in forms on the internet, etc. Stuff that's been done for years is apparently all patentable if done "on the internet".

    Some power companies (in Canada, I believe) whined about lost revenues during the blackout period, and are being *reimbursed* with taxpayer money for the 8 hours they didn't make any money. Is making money a guaranteed thing now?

    Hmmm... Warren Buffett understands old capitalism, last I checked he'd been driving the same Buick for 10 years and living in a reasonable sized home according to his needs. If I buy a new computer now for $5,000, it actually cost me $50,000 when you account for the future earning potential that $5,000 had before you spent it. How much is your extravagant SUV costing you, if you put that money into an index fund for the next 20 years? A million dollars out of your pocket? That's an expensive vehicle.

    SUV's aren't an efficient solution for 90% of the drivers, they are an example of hubris and a callous disregard for the environment your children will get cancer from by the time they are 35. It's a free country, and the companies will all love you if you become a consumer rather than a thinking man who seeks the most efficient solution to his problems.

    Even if we're producers of goods, we are still consumers of goods. Every one of us is a consumer losing his rights. But in most cases, we don't eat our own dog food, so we support the producer's rights over the consumers rights to operate without legal or ethical restriction.

    I'll quit now, I'm starting to sound like HarryTrader.
     
    #14     Sep 4, 2003
  5. trdrmac

    trdrmac

    Nice post cable!!!!
     
    #15     Sep 4, 2003
  6. cable

    cable

    Thanks!

    By the way, I may need the A-Team's help in the future, since the Chinese Triads are leaning on my family's needlepoint business and have kidnapped my blind daughter in order to get me to sign over the deed. I need some wisecracking cool guys with really bad aim and a van to save us and make our lives right again in 60 minutes or less (commercials included). :D
     
    #16     Sep 4, 2003
  7. Fantastic post, and for the record, you sound nothing like HarryTrader.

    Thanks again for the great read.

    -b
     
    #17     Sep 4, 2003
  8. vega

    vega

    I mean, just cuz the refineries were shut down from the blackout, several other refineries have been down over the summer months due to other issues (fires, production problems, technical issues), trouble in Nigeria, Venezuela still a big question mark, trouble in Iraq (still nowhere near producing the amount of oil that was expected), oh yeah, crude futures going thru the roof,and the busiest driving weekend of the year, why would prices at the pump go up ? I can't wait to see the regulators get all over Home Depot, Lowes, and Menards when snow shovels go from 10 bucks to 11.20 (12% increase in a day!!!!) after the first snow hits Chi-town:p .

    Vega:D
     
    #18     Sep 4, 2003
  9. cable

    cable

    #19     Sep 6, 2003
  10. A more appropriate line:

    "Winning isn't the important thing," said Vince Lombardi, "it is the only thing."

    Those who fear innovation don't belong in the game.
     
    #20     Sep 6, 2003