fxcm guarantees stops, in addition they offer multiple sources of pricing data for charts such as the sp/comstock feed. yes, the forex market is different and unique, but there is still money to be made here, and the cost of entry in negligible for now. the firms are far from being bucket shops as they are regulated and the trades are offset in the interbank market. best, surfer
There is a lot of false information being spread on this thread. The reputable market makers (like FXCM, Gain, RefcoFx)are in no way bucket shops. These firms have interbank relationships and offset orders there. With minis they just need to bundle the orders. In essence they are arbing credit..ie providing a market to traders without credit (retail)
Anyone who trades FX via the futures is pretty much a fool. You think anyone on the IMM has a clue? They are losers and get no orderflow. To make their markets they have got to look at interbank spot and forwards markets. They really want to screw you because they get no business. Want slippage go there! By the way most futures contracts have USD as the counter(second) currency which differs from interbank convention in a lot of pairs making TA useless on a lot of IMM contracts.
I'm just saying it the way I see it. Maybe I am completely wrong, but it does lok awfully like the find of operation the spreadbet firms in the UK run (basically the same model), and I wasn't hugely impressed with them. Best Natalie
Lookie here? False...Come on, this market maker thing is almost not regulated, and its not just my opinion. Hedge fund manangers said it, many money managers said it. And as for fishing stops, I dont think there is someone out there having doubts about it. But as I mentioned before, it shouldnt be a problem for serious trader...Interbank? ok so you agree 10k contracts are taken just as bookmaker takes bets. And 100k contract are taken to interbank? One thing is they wont admit - they play against us (mostly. But I belive serious contracts are taken to interbank as they dont want to take such risk). They cant take 100k contract to interbank. 1mio is min there. For those who didnt read the thread I linked to earler, I will quote here what I posted. I'm not working for broker, never did, and therefore everything is base purely on logic. I will be glad to discuss it is someone sees some wrong in it. So here it is:
Quote: ----------------------- So, using simple logic: First of all, one thing is for sure - noone will take a mini contract (10k) to real market - its a joke. Now lets think about 100k contracts...hmmm. Well, considering the huge liquidity of this market one may assume, that if they are attuched with 10s and hundreds of brokers, market makers and banks, they may at any given moment put togather 10 contracts of 100k and go out to interbank session. But once you enter interbank - there's no "what you cick is what you get"... Therfore no guarantee they can do it, and even if this is not enough problem, here's another problem with this scenario: not all market makers have exact same quotes at any given moment, so how can they put a trade, joining 10 contracts with different quotes into one interbank trade? If they do so - they risk to loose their profit - spred. Therefore, market maker means you're buying and selling directly with them. What happens next and what are their activities on interbank market is up to them. I talked to some people who worked there and as far as I understood - most of the time trades are balanced; i.e. there's more or less same buy and sell contracts - usually. Mu guess is, that in case there is a disbalance, they start clearing more stops, and when balance is ok - they collect less stops. In worst case, maybe they even intervien in interbank to move prices slightly in theis favor if price is not that far (though I doubt many are able to influence and move market in significant way). Maybe when they got lots of trades in particular side, they do take their money to interbank in order not to pay for the potencial profits...and so on - they may have much more sophisticared tricks not to loose money, I dont know. But in general - your trades are complitely isolated within their organization. No market maker or broker will admit it, but in fact, when you win - they loose. They deny sush claims as in this case they are playing against you - and that;s not perception they want potential clients to have. After all - who will go and trade forex knowing market maker itself is playing against you Regarding the longer term and shorter term traders...I dont think its that important for them - all they care is buy contracts against sell contracts at any given time - not more. Sure, the more trades client does - the more spred they get. But thats it. But as I said - its not something trader must be aware of. Its part of business. After all - go to interbank market - noone promices your trade will be executed ; there's no "no requoting", "no slippage" - who needs 100k on interbank market So, as far as there is oppotrunity for us to trade smaller contracts - I say thank you. So what if they are clearing stops here and there - everyone does it - you're a trader, and knowing that, try to put stop to have better chance to survive. They cannot hold or push prices more than 5-20 pips away from market. Is this what does you a trade? Maybe - if you're trading for those very 5-20 pips per trade. As for me, I'm trading with 50-100 pips stops and 100-300 pips targets, having ave 14 trades a month. And though from time to time my stops are hit (its part of trading), I'm not that worried whehter its my broker or not - I know its mainly market move (well, maybe in the end broker pushed a bit prices, maybe not. but main move was of market). Main thing is - if they are practicing stop clearing too much - leave. Find amongst them respectible one and enjoy . Ater all - they have to make money, and thats the way they have to act sometimes in order to maintain profits. Thats my view, and nothing more... So lets concentrate on making money as for sure, market makers are. And yeah - if you think of those playing against you - all those buying when you sold are against you, and all those selling when your long are also betting against you - you're always betting against someone. So what? Think of broker manipulations as another market participant who tries to make money playing against you. Back to market now Good Luck and thanks for good thread. Rezo. --------------------------
The good retail market makers are regulated by the CFTC or the FSA. What the fund managers are talking about is the interbank as it is considered pretty much the Wild West of trading but you need to know that before trading. I agree stop are gettings run .....but you fail to realize it is most likely happening at the interbank level. The retail market makers are basing their prices off those levels so they have to move with the market. Retail stops are also probably placed where the interbank ones are too as humans basically lemmings
You have to understand CFDs are very different as they can't really be offset so the counterparty is probably betting against you everytime. FX is so liquid that the market makers can arbitrage the spread. That is a huge difference! The fact is if it were not for these firms you could not trade fx
CFD's and spreadbets are worlds apart, and very different animals although they do have some things in common. True about not having access without these firms. The question I'm asking myself after an all too brief look is do I really want to trade FX? I'm going to give the benefitv of the doubt and take a proper look over time and study it much more before amking any decisions about that. These were just my first impressions. Who knows, it could turn out to be very lucrative indeed, if I can figure out appropriate methods and strategies and understand all the pitfalls properly. Best Natalie