Quote from lcl_1: Took one es short on a rocket setup at 987.25 around 11:50 et. I scratched the trade when the macd xo and the fast sto left the buy zone. Volume was also drying up. The down trendline was still in effect. .. My questions are: 1. Did i give up too soon on the rocket, or, was it acceptable to wash since the macd and sto indicated the end of the rocket? 2. Should i use the t/l as the predominant indicator? 3. Should i use the same setting for macd and sto on the 15 minute chart as we use on the 5 min. chart? The chart set up does not vary from fractal to fractal. By working through selecting defaults that work through out the fractal choices, you eliminate a lot of considerations that could come up. Looking way ahead, we want a KISS methodology. I keep trying to think of what t/l means and I can't figure that out. The predominant thing finally turns out to be flaws in trend sequences. It is very difficult to lay the foundation for really making money until you begin to monitor with a high degree of consciousness. Attaining this achieves one of the most powerful antidotes for stubbourne myths and common mistakes. What happens is that you finally get so busy doing things correctly, you forget how the continue your myths and common mistakes. If you have ever made a model plane or boat, you can understand building sequences. I should make up a sequence building kit, I think. What it would look like is a roll of butcher paper that had a grid on it for convenience. I would give you a box full of words that have multiple copies of every formation and signal. The numbers 1,2,3 would be there too . A few small sheets of paper grids would be there too as warm up sequence practice sheets. The first one would have five items to paste onto the grid. They are: midday, 13:15, am ,pm, 11:15 You mix them up first (hard to do). Then you spread them on the grid in order of the sequence. People say I am condescending and arrogant and I treat people as ignorant folks. What I wrote about is something to make you laugh and not postpone an effort that has to be made. As an ex EMT and trauma center team member, I can say to you that the way e keep sharp is two fold: We must study periodically and we must speak aloud to each other only when we have an observation that forwards the stabilization. When we study we must say aloud the sets of steps we do to make standardized determinations. You as a group are manifesting being millionaires. If everyone did their sequence kits on many levels and read what you pasted when you do a sequence, you would redo your NLP pictures very efficiently. People say my posts are too long and they are bullshit. These are people who have some pictures that are not going to work to get them to millionaire. I soften their views by suggesting they use two markers, a black one and a yellow high liner. They can keep their picture, but when they go through 500 pages with a set of markers (they should keep the empty ones as souveniers), I can suggest that they will change their picture of what is too long and what is bullshit. There are people here that you should name search and print their posts in reverse chronological order. You can actually see two things: learning level by level and then myths and mistakes disappearing. Learning to note sequences during the day is occurring for many. Keeping stop logs is happening too. Doing both of these things with the time you have, cements in your mind, pictures of how the market works. The trades and washes as a pair of activities does the same. I ask that people wash every day. Brush your teeth too. You know a sequence for brushing your teeth. How many millionaire sequences do you know. You will know the wash sequence and you can do it instinctively when a flaw triggers it. Make a flaw box. Put flaws in it to add to your sequence kit. Use red paper for that. If you log sequences and transfer them to your butcher paper grid, you will notice that they pile up on top of each other as repetition occurs. That is good because you are building up a topograph of frequency as the third dimension. I know all of this is eitehr something you may black out or high line according to your level of progress. The fact is that by doing this ridiculous stuff over and over and speak aloud as you do, you actually have a very large bank account too. I am not taking you from a mechanical process to a discressionary one. What we are doing is going from one level to another of efficiency in money making velocity. What emerges is a software program and a KISS monitoring and decision making tree. The flaw box is a trigger box in reality. Check and see. There are very few flaws. If there isn't a flaw you monitor, record logs and just pulling money. If there is a flaw we slip over the the right side of the market and continue to make money because the flaw gave us the signal to do so. I know its long. I know there are typos. Buy markers. If you continue to want to be an adversary get three markers for arrogance, condensension and ignorance. Your print out will be much more colorful. At a distance, I am a support and a helper outer that is all. Posted by CrescitEundo on 07-11-03 09:40 AM: my observations I noticed something kind of cool that i am sure most of you already have seen. I had several trend channels drawn this morning. both seemed "good" but for different time frames. as we were in an iceberg I expected the shorter timeframe one to be broken and planned on staying in through that. The trend line was broken and the 5 min broke through the 80, kewl. I didn't expect the other one to be reached for an incorect reason but still got out before it got there. The Kewl point was when i realized that the longer time period channel broke as the 15 min exited the rocket. Kewl, probobly should have noticed this before but hey i just started on the 15. I am starting to get more confidence in my trend channels. I am going to start trading with atleast all three fractals open for now. I would recomend it to everyone who has not seen this yet, it helps to see teh relationships across more than one pair of fractals. I will post a couple of my trades in a few minutes for critique. Quote from lcl_1: my questions are: 1. Did i give up too soon on the rocket, or, was it acceptable to wash since the macd and sto indicated the end of the rocket? If you are a beginner the objective is to not lose money and to learn to wash. Perfect that . Next ease into looking at trends. Doi the point 1,2,3 thing. Learn two things: how to stay in a trend until flaws end it, and leran to log the sequence of the trends using signal names and stuff to describe the trend. Also start a stop log and learn to set the C&R frequency and to learn to have the circled C&R value there at hand when the time comes to use it. All the above keeps you away from the land of the hair trigger guys. Oh and you make a lot more money too. Once you have the trends down and can add a new point 3 each time it is required. You will slip over to iceberging. Iceberging prolongs the slower longer periods of getting richer and richer. This certainly is a patience test. Once you are getting comfortable with your weekly take, you will then qualify your self to branch into the use of two strategies and doing multiple contracts. this level is at least 5 to 10 times more profitable per week. People prevent themselves from making this kind of money for one simple reason: they are so smart that they skip steps and do not actually know what they are doing well enough so that they get to live in the surprise and draw down world sadly ever after. the two cures, one for surprises and one for draw downs just cannot ever be understood by these folks. There is no foundation for their gaining and understanding. This is not a "my way or the hyway" kind of post. All I am saying is this. Learning to make money is a process and if you do not go through your personal growth process thoroughly you do not get to be a millionaire. The process I recommend is just a short cut path the unlimited wealth. 4 out od 5 people are not going to go this route. This is not a brains thing, smart people are too smart for this. This is a discipline thing which is the kind of thing that appeals to people of any intellect who happen to have wisdom. Wizards have wisdom. Smart people have alexâs gaps and retraces. Take a look. You extended the channel until a flaw shows up. We are looking at how to get through the resistance that the lower volume doesn't have momentum to go raging through, or even ease through. We get ready for the afternoon. Posted by nwbprop on 07-11-03 09:55 AM: I was away yestarday and was not able to trade. The 15 min stuff is great. I can see how it gives a bigger perspecitve at the right times. Just wanted to post my trades for the morning. It was definatley a tough one as i feel that i may be getting ahead of myself. Especially after reading jacks last post. Dont want to be a smart alec. 9:47--Got long on the 1 min xover looking for continuation into a rocket. 10:05--exited long due to rocket failure and break of channel, reversed for a failed rocket reversal. 10:12--stochs(5 min) had exited 80 line and bounced off 50% level. As usual volume declined on the pullback. It was either creating a point 3 or reversal. I covered as voume started to increase from vdu and price started to go up. 10:21--short at the top of the price on the volume spike as i thought we were going to be in slaloming mode(oh how i was wrong ) 10:27--got out for a wash/10 cent loss. Trying to get market orders on the spys jsut does not work very well. Anyway, I have a lot to learn. Hope everyone is doing well.
Posted by CrescitEundo on 07-11-03 10:48 AM: my am "they are so smart that they skip steps and do not actually know what they are doing well enough so that they get to live in the surprise and drawdown world sadly ever after." Um that would be me - i definately tried to skip iceberging. I will now try to iceberg and simply observe the slaloming to get those sequences down. 9:46 long (long rocket in on 1 min macd xo) out a little early short the failed rocket out at 50% stoc look to see if it is going to continue down or rezoom- it started ticking back up on increasing volume so i am looking for a rezoom. ticks down on decreasing volume looking for oppertunity to get long- got long when it started up- volume continues to increase so all is good 10:16 volume spike down- a fake out ??? eventualy how would i have known to stay in there- or if i washed, which i did, what should have been my reentry signal????? at 10:25ish I thought we were observing a penent type formation and missed the start of that break out, bad shold have no bias hears to the learning process nwbprop & icarus618, thanks fro posting charts, very useful to have teh visual aid. icarus would you pls explain either of your charts, and what does fbo mean?. Thankyou Posted by nwbprop on 07-11-03 11:02 AM: Fbo=failed break out. I also wanted to make a little request. Jack has been stressing the C&R because it would lead to certain revelations. I have tried and will try again to C&R. I jsut dont fully understand the process. If somone could enlighten me, it would be much appreciated. What i think i know is: Cross out any that occur twice and then circle back occording to peaks; 1 peak per 15 minutes= circle 4 back 2 peaks per 15 mnutes=circle 3 back 3 peaks per 15 minutes=circle 2 back Posted by nwbprop on 07-11-03 05:49 PM: Today was a great learning day for me. Added something new to my sequence. I hope this isnt confusing. Failed rocket reversal-->Stoch diverge out of 80-->macd xover-->stoch near 50%-->volume decreasing dryup/pullback--> volume increasing/bo-->price reverses back too where it came from-->stochs reverse back into 80-->***Price break previous high made from failed rocket--> price reaches other side of channel created-->bounces off channel and retraces back to the right side. just a few things on the sequence above. In the above sequence, When their is volume drying up and stoch are at 50%, The volume can increase with price resuming back into the original trend with stochs crossing over the 20 on the other side for a rocket/rocket failure on the 20 side. At the *** in the sequence, price could have also bounced off the previous failed rocket high instead of continueing thru it. I know there are a lot more but i wanted to add some of the sequence stuff i saw today before the weekend started. Posted by colina on 07-11-03 11:43 PM: Great thread here, am learning alot and am very appreciative of everyones' insights. Great discussion. I was curious about using trailing stops while in a position. In hindsight Friday afternoons' trading range might have been a nice match for a pair of stops as a bracket set up. Even though I did not neccesarily see CCC so to speak, as it continued to bounce between R/S while in the trading range. But I ended up entering at Market and used a trailing stop. 14:00 - afternoon trading rnge HOY <----> R1 - sequence repeating a)top bars pull down b)vdu bar c)mini b.o(p,m,v) d)volume peak e)bounce off of support and repeat 14:14 Enter short @ Mkt - b.o.(p,m,v) - break out of trading range. Almost never lasts more than 3x, each hit on R/S eats away bids/asks resources (?) - initial trnd vol marginal ~ 3k 14:20 OOPS Exit: stopped out with initial offset of - 1 pt at ~100 % retrace Besides using price formations as trailing stops, What would be a reasonable offset for the initial stop right after the position is entered ? Obviously a better entry point on my part would have helped here, say around 14:12/14:13. But I missed it. Heck, there are 405 minutes to a trading day. It takes discipline to be vigilant every minute of the day(lol) Oddiduro on 07-12-03 01:17 PM: Quote from bubba7: This is an observation. People get intrigued with the market and they set up all kinds of stuff to do things. snipâ¦. full text aboveâ¦.. This post has been pivital for me. I went back over the last 4 days and re-read this entire thread. It is notable that the reading has been MUCH easier. Something clicked. It was like Neo seeing the Matrix for what it is. The market moves in slow motion now, I wish I could truly relate why. I have seen the flaw in using the moving average ribbons. I have also seen the flaw in using Gann 1/8ths. These are how I made money in the past. One was great for trends, the other great for range bound markets, neither handled the transition well at all, which is why I finally opened this thread after watching it sit for 2 months. I understand clearly now the ability to make money every day. Reversing out of the failed rockets and using the 1 min chart to slolom back across the channel was my primary key. Points 1-2-3 was the other key. Thanks for the fix, Jack. Thanks to Dawg and Vorzo, and Tampa, for documenting their own process of evolution. thanks for posting. I really appreciate your incites. Everyone here is able to see getting rich is a personal process rather than anything else when it comes right down to it. when you "set stuff", you never will experience it leaving you. The most important part of this thread, without any question, is the process people contribute here over time that states how they do, how they feel, and how they learn and what they understand. I am canning all this for reference, etc. But the fact is, it is the day to day process where people achieve their plateaux is where its at. A lot of people hit this thread, read it, and that is sufficient to absorb stuff to meld with their personal approaches. Later on it can stand as a comprehensive strategy for both equities and futures indexes. The process is getting us there. If a person wishes, there is a point where using several contracts is a good idea. Even if you are not expert and have the whole picture, it is clearly possible to use intermediate stuff and trend following to begin to pull down a good money flow. We are now months away from the backtester syndrome of forums. For what ever reason I am seeing a lot of threads that deal with a wide variety of substantive content that is showing people making good returns. Also I notice that many people here are not making strange funny noises any more. All of this is giving us a chance to get more focused on upgrading the levels of everything. Quote from illiquid: Do people really need stochastics to tell them something is reversing from an "oversold" condition? If you trade a single vehicle, whether it be a stock or future, and are capable of sitting down and watching it day in, day out, noting where the levels of resistance and volume are, you will be way ahead of any price/volume derived indicator out there. Stochastics will not tell you ...."something is reversing from an "oversold" condition?". You are making a very common mistake. Quote from dawg: quick side comment: at some point you will be getting into trades before they become rockets. for ex:good macd hist reading +.40 and stoch crosses 50 i always reverse out of failed rocket. dawg, when yuo say stoch crosses 50 do you mean fast stoch? slow stoch? both fast+slow? do you wait for teh bar to close? 5minute bar? 2minute bar? and besides revrsing out of failed rockets do you also revrse out of succesful rockets? thanks for your posts, always helpfull. fast stoch on 5m bar, and i wait for close and i reverse out of succesfull rockets most of the time...especially if their are divergences. Quote from nkhoi: now if you speed up your posting then we can see where it going simultaneously. I will make an effort to do so. BTW, I understand that you are the one who brought Jack here. Seeing that this is the most viewed thread on this site, thanks would be an understatement, but I'm doing it anyway.
Posted by oddiduro on 07-13-03 06:49 PM: Jack, a question about synchronicity Okay, when the stoch leaves the tape( 75 - 25 ) and MACD is good, do we enter, or should we wait until price breaks it's channel? Conversely, if price re-enters it's channel on an apparent failure, should we hold as beginners until stoch re-enters the tape, or should we exit immediately? Now if we wash, that would answer the question, but I don't want to assume anything at this point. If we do in fact wash, and price re-enters the old channel along with stoch falling below 75, Am I presuming that it is okay to slolom back to the base of the old channel using 1 min MACD crossovers? Lastly, as long as we have a twirling stoch, we should hold the rocket until point 2 and 3 of the new channel appear(as point 1 will be in the old channel), is that the correct premise? Dawg, these question are to Jack, but I think it is established that you are his star apprentice, so if you would like to chime in, I am all ears. After thinking about it some, I have concluded that if the Stoc and MACD both indicate a trade should be taken, then we should take the trade, regardless of postion of price in the channel. If price bumps the channel and reverses, we can still just slolom down to the base of the channel. Nkhoi, I cannot trade everyday, as I am a nurse supervisor ( yes, I am male) and I take a lot of on call stuff. But if you all would like me to follow something on a slower fractal, I could do that. I could also screen for equities that are within a channel, and we could watch for the rockets, and get some stuff in on trading the slower fractals. This will be answered later by parts. Posted by vorzo on 07-14-03 06:26 PM: Mon Jul 14 After a one week absence, I tried some trades (simulated) this afternoon. #1 centering -> VDU BO (bracketed) 13:43 long 1012.50 13:454 sell 1011.75 failed BO -0.75 Passed on rocket signal at 14:00 as MACDhist wasn't there; resistance at 1014.00 #2 centering -> VDU BO (not bracketed) 14:19 short 1011.75 late entry 14:21 cover 1012.75 failed BO -1.00 #3 short rocket 14:44 short 1011.25 14:49 cover 1011.25 failed rocket 0.00 #4 rocket reentry -> low bd 15:05 short 1010.00 15:08 cover 995.25 huge spike down -> started to whip up +14.75 Turns out trades below 995.75 were busted so I'd still be short 1 car at 1010.00 -> cover after IB bulletin was released. 16:07 cover 1001.75 +8.25 #5 MACD x -> point 3 bounce 15:38 short 1005.50 15:45 cover 1000.75 after bounce off 1000.00 support +4.75 Day +11.25 / 5 trades. Screwed up on the VDU BOs with late exits; bracketing ensures an earlier entry and lesser loss if BO fails. Got lucky on the short rocket - I hope some people nailed some nice cash on that spike. This is the second error causing a major spike in two weeks - protective stops certainly save your ass in such situations. Posted by nkhoi on 07-14-03 08:58 PM: Jack, MM, Gann oh my Nkhoi, I cannot trade everyday, as I am a nurse supervisor ( yes, I am male) and I take a lot of on call stuff. But if you all would like me to follow something on a slower fractal, I could do that. I could also screen for equities that are within a channel, and we could watch for the rockets, and get some stuff in on trading the slower fractals. don't worry about real time call just interest in your 'insight' of this method as oppose to MM or Gann. Sure, to sum it up for me: STRENGTH OF TREND. Gann is based on the time of a move, in a nutshell. He used astro, and natural cycles to time the market. Fine, the only problem is with whipsaws. Being whipsawed all over creation is the problem I would say most traders try to fix without losing half of their profits first. Jack fixes this with the rocket => failed rocket=> slolom sequence and wash trades. Murrey Math is modification of Gann 1/8ths and is a nice system. I don't have anything negative to say about it, except that because it is Gann derivative, it has the same flaw, which is objectively determining strength of move, and the potential reversal zone for MM is very large, in my opinion. Jack has covered almost anything that can happen in a market scenario. Slow and fast trends, lateral trends, range, congestion and centering, and even how to apply trailing stops. Yesterday, I switched to a 30 min fractal to get the channel because of the large gap up. The 3 point channel worked to perfection. Multiple time frames is something I could not do before this thread. Bill Williams' Profitunity is not half bad either, except, once again, a lateral trend can whipsaw you into oblivion. So, as I belabor this point one last time. The Rocket Method is the only method that effectively handles the lateral trend, for me, anyway. Posted by nwbprop on 07-15-03 06:53 AM: Quote from bubba7: If a rocket doesn't pop you have an iceberg which is another sequence(s). Icebergs vary too. Always note that what you can discover instead of being told somehow makes it all more fun. Jack, The first quote is what brought me too the next level. I have read this post multiple times but only now understand what that statement means. You could have said it multiple times and i still wouldnt have truly understood. It takes a revelation. Thanks again Jack. This is great. Quote from bubba7: Make the stop log from the data on the fractal on which you trade. You may when you become expert use a faster fractal... If you are a typical ETer... stay on the trading fractal. What you record on your log is price values where the price bar formations exhibit the more important values. These you do as copiously as possible. We need to have a log of the facts regarding our trading. I will ask you to, in advance, list the times you are going to C&R... When a time comes up for C&R, you glance at the log at the last circled value this is what you use. You log values as often as you judge proper. They go in the direction of the market and they retrace in value occasionally. Cross out the values that you first listed if they are duplicates. You now know how to log. today, on teh 5minute fractal i loged: 1010.25 1008.00 1008.75 1008.00 1004.25 (1000.75) not sure if this should be loged 1001.75 999.00 i saw the periodicity was cntracting as teh day went on, but how do i use thees numbers? can jack or anyone who is succesfully using them pls explain. Thankyou Posted by scsamel on 07-15-03 03:16 PM: Pace & StopLog When we are in a pace which allows us to be on the 5 and 1 min fractal pair ( charts ) we log our stop on the 1 min, adding, crossing out and erasing as needed, and staying back 4 or 2 for the fast pace rockets. Logging and keeping 4 back keeps us in through the hitches, stalls and small retrancements in a medium to fast pace on the 5 min. On a slow paced day like last Thursday where we were on the 5 and 15 min charts it didn't take long to erase back into the crossed out stops and become sidelined. My question is how far back do we stay, logging on the 1 min, to keep us in on a slow paced trend on the 15 min. If we move to logging on the 5 min and the pace picks up we are not ready with stops for a faster pace so staying way back like 8 or 10 or more on the 1 min would seem to work, but I don't know if this is the proper thing to do. Suggestions anyone? Quote from scsamel: When we are in a pace which allows us to be on the 5 and 1 min fractal pair ( charts ) we log our stop on the 1 min now im still confusd as jack said in his toolbox: Quote from bubba7: Make the stop log from the data on the fractal on which you trade. You may when you become expert use a faster fractal because of the time you have on your hands and how you are able to view the market by then. If you are a typical ETer, you need to slow down and smell the green; so stay on the trading fractal. MY RESPONSE INSERTED ON 09AUG03: It is hard to keep a stop log. The goal is to have a list of all the places where active traders make a âtrading commentâ That is where they state their beliefs by their behavior. We want to trade ahead of the herd and the smart money. We keep track of this by monitoring and recording what is going on. Here is the goal: by focusing on the fractal you are trading on, you have the competition on that fractal sized up quite well. To add to that information is not a relaxed orientation but it is an orientation that is helpful to you. If the formations on the trading fractal are slow to come, then go to the next faster fractal (usually the 1min) and extract more detailed pertinent information. I know I confuse people. I do it by how I type run on copy and how I tell different level people different answers. I, over time, will get to a clear, concise and crisp delivery for an audience that is in the groove and really performing. This is a process. The upside of being confused is that you are totally focused and at an orientation of inquiry.
This has some good rewrites Re: Re: Jack, a question about synchronicity Quote from oddiduro: After thinking about it some, I have concluded that if the Stoc and MACD both indicate a trade should be taken, then we should take the trade, regardless of postion of price in the channel. If price bumps the channel and reverses, we can still just slolom down to the base of the channel. Nkhoi, I cannot trade everyday, as I am a nurse supervisor ( yes, I am male) and I take a lot of on call stuff. But if you all would like me to follow something on a slower fractal, I could do that. I could also screen for equities that are within a channel, and we could watch for the rockets, and get some stuff in on trading the slower fractals. You will find that the rocket and iceberg entries come before a channel is rolling. There are lots of ways things happen, but I can speak about common ones to get a point made. Many people here use the 5 min and they do annotations of right lines. Often there is a right line in effect most of the time. Gaps occasionally make things less continuous and that's how it goes. Some times a spike will slip out of the channels as well. With this as the common setting. What happens first in a trade is that you enter according to your skill level. You then focus on the money making situation. I am not going to go through loads of possibilities. You stay in the trade and you see that you are leaving the vicinity of point 1. Well look for point 2 Find it.. Now you know the approximate channel width and you do NOT know the channel slope. People have many things crossing their minds after point 2. By keeping track of a stop log, you can keep your mind sort of free of thoughts that potentially cause you to not be able to hold. Holding is a patience exercise for some. I am a weener on this stuff. I wish people to sit and watch. You see width of the channel at point 2. The width is a strip with point 1 on the right and point two on the left. You rerally do not know the strip width nor how the strip is tipped in slope. Both of these things you do not know are perfectly okay as you make money in the trend. There is no fear needed. Skip the fear pictures for now. All the indicators and volume are chugging. The price graph needs to give you a point 3 and it is NOT giving you an exit. Whether you are in a rocket or an iceberg does not matter. Going away from point 2 is an adjustment the market is making to get the trend pace taken care of. Let it be taken care of. When point 3 comes up, it is tense. Getting the first 10,000 point 3's in 10,000 trends is sort of tense. Until it happens 10,000 times there are still those creepy little questions that come up. Pretend you are past that just for fun. You see point 3 and you go to work on the chart with a line giving the right slope and you clone it to point 2. Cloning through point 2 with a line parallel to the line through points 1 and 3 gives you a channel. The steepness of the channel may be adjusted in the future. You are at a place where almost no one else in the world is operating. You have the channel and all itâs associated information and they are sitting on their collective asses and just watching. Have a laugh and consider yourself ahead of the herd and equal to the smart money. I am sitting there too and I, additionally, have a killer market operating point matrix with all the sequences superimposed upon it in 3D. Now you are looking around. You see you can turn it into a tape on a slower fractal but you want to wait to be sure about point 3 for the 10,000 time. After you let yourself admit it is a point 3, you can see that the indicators and volume and stuff is chugging as it would. We can explore for other things now. After point 3 we have beat through the 3:1 R/R target poop outs and we see that maxing profits is more fun than targets. We try to forget about targets for a moment. Keep filling the stop log. Lots of new entries as you move away from point 3. Get way past the target stuff. Do not do draw down mentality stuff any more either. We may see any of the following. We bop to the left side. We cruise there. We go there a little slower. We see the cycle time for the trend. We set up a reasonable period to C&R. We add some C&R times across the log. After the left line is hit we head to the right. Again. Okay look for letting the old point 3 be replaced if the trend pace slows a little. If you do, then draw all the lines over again. So it goes. Sooner or later we get out the flaw box. It has cards with flaws in it. On the opposite side of each card are things to do when you find the flaw. Make up one Flaw card now. Write on the top (the side you keep up): Stall in middle of right to left move. On the other side write: reverse if I am an intermediate. Beginners are not turning this card over as yet. This is because the rocket on the STOC ended and they sidelined already just to be safe and make money. Beginners do not use the flaw card simply because they are already sidelined and that means the box is closed. If you are not a step skipper and you are keeping sequence lists as you do your stop log and monitor, simply make up some flaw cards from your sequence lists. Temporarily put exit on the other side of each one. There are several people here who have posted other answers already. For those people put your prior statements on the other side of the flaw. You may think this is fifth grader like condescending chat on my part. Actually it is cheerful stuff that is really setting you up to make money. A flaw box is a little silver thing you buy at Cartier or that light blue box place (Tiffany's). If it is out of your way temporarily, get a cigar box or a single wine bottle (whiskey boxes work too) wooden box. It may sound strange but the day you have a flaw box is the day that you always have the answer as what to do. If you do not see flaws, you hang in there. Hey okay. If you have a flaw box, look for the flaw. If it's there turn it over and do what it says. If your box doesn't have a card. Exit. Take out a blank card and fill it in as the market tells you what to do. Use your big butcher paper wall chart to lay out more and more sequences as days go by. Paste the one's that come up a lot on top of the former one's you added already. We want a deep topological wall chart. Look at topological. Logical and topo the logical. Always put up red flaw labels where the sequence ended with a flaw. One the other side of the flaw place the sequence that followed to make money if it did not end in an exit. You will notice that things loop back into the left side of your wall chart.. At first just draw lines back into where it goes to repeat. Note: The first time you redo your wall chart. Put in some horizontal levels. Let the top be one minute band. Put a wide 5 min band below that . then a 15 min band and then a 30 min band. do a 60 min and and a daily at the bottom. You can paste sequences in where they happen. You will find out how it divides up vertically in a while. For now make the BO pieces of the sequences be green so they stand out. You will need about three separate places where these show up ultimately. For now just use loopy lines to get back to a sequence. If you do not skip over doing some visual work, you are going to come to a place where your self taught personal reinforcement makes you a wizard. Some day a lot of you are going to have silver flaw boxes that you never have to open. There is no "edge" box for where we are going. Posted by bundlemaker on 07-15-03 05:08 PM: Sometimes the most simple things tend to confuse us the most. That's how it with stop logs for me. If possible, could someone post a copy of their stop log for the day. It would be immeasureably helpful. color=red]Posted by oddiduro on 07-15-03 05:14 PM: Fear Factor I see what you mean now, Jack. We all still have this early exit flaw. In the future we are to focus on the sequence, the exits and profits will take care of themselves. I have also noticed that the C&R log is not only to keep us where our stops should be, but it keeps the left side of the brain complex to the fore, so we cannot easily form right sided fear pictures. Good Idea. Now, about the speed of the trend. You have parameters on the C&R log for fast vs. slow trends. What is fast and what is slow for us? Right now, I am using the angle of the slope on the right trend line(Murrey and Gann). Angle between 22.5 and 45 are normal speed. Angle < 22.5 are slow. Angle > 45 are fast. Please correct any flaws that you see. I'm off to Office Max for some supplies[/color] I bet he is going to build his map
[relocated to this Journal at the request of Jack] Posted by nkhoi on 07-15-03 06:49 PM: Quote from bundlemaker: Sometimes the most simple things tend to confuse us the most. That's how it with stop logs for me. If possible, could someone post a copy of their stop log for the day. It would be immeasureably helpful. the long ver. of stop log http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...02.primenet.com Posted by icarus618 on 07-15-03 10:49 PM: Quote from bubba7: You willfind that the rocket and iceberg entries come before a channel is rolling. . . . Jack, Thanks for the great post. It's filled with wonderful, enabling pictures. I have binders full of your posts going back to the Google days and this one ranks up there as one of your all-time best. Posted by oddiduro on 07-16-03 03:48 AM: Flaw cards I wrote on my flaw card: Failure to Traverse- Intermediate Reverse: Use 1 min MACD crossover to reverse into what is either a slolom or the start of a new trend. I like this flaw card stuff,it is a great way out of the real time brain freeze I have gotten in the past. Posted by manz66 on 07-16-03 06:31 AM: How to keep log! Your posting is almost perfect I used *** to indicate my comments for your quick review "Jerome V. Braun" wrote in message news:wkemaat2rd.fsf@kmri.com... > Hi Jack! > > First, thank you very much for your answers. They > clarified the form for me greatly. > > I'd like to summarize my understanding, and ask a couple > of follow-up questions. To be definite, I will assume > that we start filling in the sheet on 2/17/2000 at > 09:00 EST. *** I start in such a way the see the open of CBOT, because the gaps and the way it settles in (especially volume0 is of interest to see the market "sentiment". i am doing other stuff too. > > Trend Analysis Sheet > first part: lines from "Sync:" to "Market Note Headers" > second part: lines from "Market Note Headers" to "Formation:" > third part: lines from "Formation:" to "Trade Preparation Notes" > fourth part: lines from "Trade Preparation Notes" > > *Use of the Trend Analysis Sheet* > > 1. Fill in the "Day" and "Date" fields with the current day > and date respectively. > > E.g., "Thu" and "2/17/2000". > > 2. Fill in the "yesterday" and first "near past" column in > the "Limits" section in the first part. > > 2.a. Values for yesterdays top and bottom are yesterday's > contract high and low. > > 2.b. Values for near past top and bottom are today's > contract high and low. > > E.g., > yesterday near past > Limits 2/16/2000 09:00 10:00 11:00 > Tops 10780 10720 > Bottoms 10595 10645 > > 2.c. Update the "Limits" section once per hour. > > E.g., > yesterday near past > Limits 2/16/2000 09:00 10:00 11:00 > Tops 10780 10720 10720 > Bottoms 10595 10645 10645 > > yesterday near past > Limits 2/16/2000 09:00 10:00 11:00 > Tops 10780 10720 10720 10720 > Bottoms 10595 10645 10645 10540 > > 3. Fill in "Close" fields in the "Spread" section. > (16:00 close for INDU, 16:20 close for DJ00H) > > E.g., "Close 10604 10570 34" > > 4. Starting at 09:33, begin filling in the rows of > the "Spread" section. > > 4.a. A row is completed every three minutes. > > 4.b. Note the behavior for both INDU and DJ00H > of the following indicators: MACD curves, > 1-minute bar formations, and volume. > > 4.c. When the spread settles down and begins to > repeat, /and/ when the indicators agree between > INDU and DJ00H, declare synchronicity. > > E.g., > Spread DJ00H INDU spread Indicators agree? > Close 10604 10570 34 > 09:33 10680 10618 62 no > 09:36 10685 10650 35 no > 09:39 10700 10655 45 yes *** Here you see how the spread does come into a particular value where there is a change in index values of nearly 100 points. > > 5. Fill in the "Time" and "Value" fields of the "Sync" > section. > > E.g., "Sync: Time 09:39 Value 10700" > > 6. Starting at 09:00, begin filling in the cells of > the second part. > > 6.a. Use a 15-minute interval for the time field. > Alternatively, use peak and trough times. > > E.g., "time 09:00 09:15 09:30 09:45 10:00" ***I would be flexible here. More frequent when change is taking place less frequent as a steady cnage is going down or its flat in the middle of the days. To the right of the values, I add an arrow to highlight the diection of the move. If none I use a ~, if a lot of change two or three arrows. I cicle rereversals as well. i focus on unanimity of movement to indicate slow pace of extended trends and "mixed" to anticipate a "choppy" series of short trends. i also notice which one "peel" off first as a trend is developing. The tick is important for each. The NYSE ticks are spread all over the exchange and don't specifically reltethe any index. hte CBOT tick is cummulative and acts as a volume indicator not a direction indicator; it is found under the streaming data with a click. > > 6.b. Fill in values for DJ, INDU, SPX, RUTX, > and COMPX. > > *More Questions* > > 1. To what do "tk INDU" and "tk DJ" refer? *** see above. > 2. Supposing that the first column is time 09:00, over > the next 15 minutes what should I write down in the > 5-minute and 1-minute sections? ***Fill in the pre NYSE open stuff that is coming thru for CBOT. Start with the first peak/troughfor each. it usually turns out there are a few 1 mins and 1 ..5 min. Its a good time to get the rythm going and set the first right line on the 5 min chart. Usually it will carry over from the prior day. Posted by nwbprop on 07-16-03 06:40 AM: Re: Fear Factor Quote from oddiduro: Now, about the speed of the trend. You have parameters on the C&R log for fast vs. slow trends. What is fast and what is slow for us Jack wants you to discover things on your own as it makes things much more concrete in your head. When people get things for free, they do not put value in it. Here is a hint for trend paces. In a rocket, the stoch is taped between 80-100 and 0-20. Try to figure out where the stoch is taped in a medium and slow pace. Okay, fair enough. Right now, I'll will stick with the angle of slope, as this has been very effective thus far. I am not saying to lose the angle approach. Just add to it. Once you get down some sequences for slower paces, you will see that everything fits together(including angles). hope you have that rocket short. Just left it ( early), at 992 The reason it was early was because my nearest C&R stop was at 999.25, and I didn't wait for point 3. I will see how much I left on the table, when I do my homework tonight. My 09AUG03 Commnets The above shows how things can be added to an existing method and it shows, also, that what is added may not be something a person can immediately act upon. Stuff can be added provisionally, then chacked out in retrospect. After that, it may become easier to use it. The focu above for seeing the potential is if it could be used to make more money. Is there really any other criteria, basically?. Probably not. It may take some comparisons too. After that it may be possible to actually eliminate past stuff.
[relocated to this Journal at the request of Jack] Preface on 09AUG03--SCT Trading. The purpose of expert trading in futures indexes markets is to trade at the potential the market offers. When a market is seen as a dynamic model where money is transferred during change, then it is possible to design a method to continually extract capital from the poll that exists. Others supply capital into the pool. The term we use here for this is SCT standing for seamless continuous trading. This is an expert level of trading reached by going through,successfully, several major levels (and minor levels within the major ones) where more and more of the market's operating points may be utuilized for making money. With SCT almost all of the market's operating points are utilized. The process is actually segmented in several ways and on several levels. None of this is done in a macro analysis context. Only micro analysis may be used. The PT has surfaced in ET and so it's implications can be addressed as an annecdotal provision. PT determined that people in trading situations make judgements that can lead to decisions and behavioral action. They do this differently for case A and for case B that PT examined. The SCT is designed to utilize a combination of case A and case B. A synergistic effect results that exceeds the performance of the two independent cases under several hypotheses A+B= several times the sum. C,D ,E, F....etc result. As a practical application Taking segments of money out of the market occur depending upon the strategic modus in effect (either continuation or change). In practical terms, money is taken out at the end of each opportunity. Since the continuation trends usually migrate to the change modus which is a reversal strategy, more capital is extracted during the change modus. People going through the levels of performance go through about 8 doublings of money velocity. The continuation strategy gets people through most of the lower levels of doubling. the combination strategy og continuation and change leads to other doublings. Finally experts accumulate enough capital to primarily deal with risk and money management as their primary strategic occupation as they trade under a mechanistic (totally software operated) regime. The principle construct for doing this is zone trading with multiple contract entities treated as independent segments of capital that are traded in the same market which is zoned. SCT precludes "edge" bullshit. As time passes and market operating points come and go. Segments of capital application begin in differing segments of time for market operating points (zones). As independent elements of capital, their individual risk is assessed and the respective sizing is determined. The effect of this is a "portfolio" of circumstances of application of capital. Think of it as a portfolio of stocks selected by FA and whose hold is determined by TA. In the case of a commodities futures index, there is one market and one entity. not like a stock exchange where one market trades many entities called stocks. In an index exchange there are entities as well. They are defined in FA terms as well. Each index market operating point has an a cell in which it resides and it is adjacent to other cells. This matrix map is exactly like a stock exchange where stocks of every FA description many be grouped. The FA analysis of stocks at any time in space yields a comprehensive assessment. For the cells of the index market's operating points, there is an analogous FA description. This is where I collected the places for beginners, intermediates and experts to trade and moreso, not to trade. By defining the operating points of the market in a multidimensional matrix, you simultaneously create a risk matrix and a money management matrix. FA descriptions of entities are what comprise portfolios. Risk manangement is conducted on protfolios for one purpose: to distribute risk. ET'ers deal with non-portfolio risk in singular markets where they fart around with edges for this, that and the other and have only one application of capital at any given time because their edge is the only application they constain themselves too. Zones have variable risk through out their run as they overlap each other. I only know one person here now who plays zones (16 applications max at any time) and he scales in and out of each application independantly. He feels it gets a little tricky when some of the zones are long and some are short at the same time. All of these considerations stem from one condition and consideration. The size of personal capital relative to the size of the capital any market zone is handling at any particular time. This is inserted here today to set you up to consider the very important sequence of posts that follow. the posters are now on the expert plateau where SCT takes place. Posted by oddiduro on 07-16-03 09:22 AM: New Flaw Card hypotheses If trend appears lateral, yet there is no point 3: Wait for point 3 Consider holding rocket as an iceberg Wait for DU or VDU Exit should have been 990.00 Reason: Point 3 appears at 10:05 bar. Failure to traverse at 10:15 bar DU at 10:20 bar Stoch now clearly out of rocket zone. Clean channel break at 10:30 bar. Cost of early exit was 2 points. color=blue]Posted by icarus618 on 07-16-03 09:33 AM: Leaving money on the table is not an issue. You can make money all the time.[/color] Posted by nwbprop on 07-16-03 10:03 AM: This is how i saw this morning. Great morning for a rocket short, followed by some nice ccc slaloming. I also agree with icarus, you will get too a point where you make money at all times. When the rocket outperformed, it created a wider channel that could have been slalomed. ITs up to your skill level though. Always work to get to that next plateau. Posted by nwbprop on 07-16-03 10:25 AM: Icarus, could you please post a six month chart. I think we are at the bottom of the channel but dont have that option on my First Alert. thnx color=blue]Posted by nwbprop on 07-16-03 10:35 AM: thnks. Based on your chart, I think we might bounce this afternoon. If we break through that right channel, it could be some bad news going forward.[/color] It's not looking pretty. Posted by jack hershey on 07-16-03 10:48 AM: Re: Flaw cards Quote from oddiduro: I wrote on my flaw card: Failure to Traverse- Intermediate Reverse: Use 1 min MACD crossover to reverse into what is either a slolom or the start of a new trend. I like this flaw card stuff,it is a great way out of the real time brain freeze I have gotten in the past. I am sorry if my ways seem corny. They, of course, are. I am so glad that you can take my ways as not offensive. What is really important is to be able to have people stand there beside what I say and laugh first before they begin to do their thing to progress each in his own way. I have two jobs here it turns out. One is to get people through a monopoly like process to millionaire. The other is to chip away at NLP pictures that block progress. I feel anything is fair for me to do to get it done. The flaw box is a classic. It is not easy to explain but I had to do many many things here prior to getting to the picture of the flaw box. We all know that some people just might not get one. My image of my flaw box is a cigar box my daughter made me in lower school. It was a cigar box covered with felt pieces. What was inside it were all the small things she collected here and there that represented me to her in positive ways. I got the idea of not letting flaws get into it at that time. So I had another box that I made pictorially in my mind that I kept stuff in that I needed to work on. Boxes are neat. You powerfully mention how things freeze us. I agree, that if you have a place to go to, then you can break the freeze. Real comment here. I think that it is a good idea to have a real flaw box. In two years it will be something you look at and tell stories about. One day, I did my biggest net profit trade. it was a net of 1,7 mil. Having a completed flaw box ranks the same. What is going on here is this. We have arrived at a place where we can see that 100% of the time we know what is going on in the market. Each of you may feel that you do not have facility to be in that place as yet. The facts are that as you complete your wall chart of the sequences, you do get to a place where you are just doing topography. That is, you are gluing stuff on top of stuff you have seen before. Once we see the picture of market operations, we get to see flaws as the cause of end effects of profit sequences. This is a tremendous vantage point. We have the right to turn over the flaw card and write on it what to do. How do I say it? Well you write the solution out because you have experienced before how it turns out. You know now because you logged stops and you logged sequences to take up the market time.
[relocated to this Journal at the request of Jack] today: sync, short, slalom, exit on convergence. 12:00 @ 990. the next layer down has the points and times and the C&R periodicity, new point 3. blah blah. Stop logs are rolling because of nkhoi's help and the prior dialog. When you get to the flaw box after the two trading strategies (continuation and change) you emerge into a KISS operation. To follow a critical path method to millionaire, you need a process primarily. The process of plateaux is designed to eliminate experiencing losses. You see posts that abound on how long it takes to make money. The posters are examples of people that do not have a CPM approach. So here is the pitch. You must do it BE DO HAVE. Everyone is a millionaire. DO'ing is how to manifest HAVING. The theory of learning for which I have the attribution is this: You make a risk to learn. To start to learn a body of stuff (knowledge, skills and experience), you must lower the risk of the first step to be able to begin to learn correctly. If that is not done, the learner will not risk really learning. And learning will not really occur. All learning builds on the beginning step. It is the foundation for success. The greatest and most significant improvements in reading comprehension occur if a person reading a couple of paragraphs in a test, does this: Read the first sentence twice. Over a ten year period, 100% sample, my students took the SAT math test. I taught for 10 years after we found out we could not have children. They had a pre post shift of 1.23 sigmas on aptitude. ETS said it was not possible. To move through 40% of a population cannot occur. I taught in one way only. Kids asked me questions they prepared based on self assigned homework they could not complete. I have never finished a text book later than mid February. What they saw was me demonstrating learning 100% of the time. They processed the second pass on the SAT in half the allotted time as a rule. So they did it twice during the sitting. The final conclusions drawn were that the students matured very rapidly compared to their peer population. Personally I concluded that the profession was not getting the most out of the opportunity. My students did library studies from FEB on and my department had the largest library budget. Here we have scoped out the market. Found that it has two moduses (continuation and change). We did a learning synthesis. We moved from plateau to plateau as defined by risk management. With no knowledge, skills or experience, we did rockets and washes (flat turns). Rockets alone can make you into a millionaire, just add contracts and one flaw card. It says "trend right line BO" the other side says "exit, you are at daily S or R" Punch line. At this point I am asking you to rad the first sentence again. Now you have knowledge, skills and experience. By my going through it all once more as a subtheme here (largely by my getting the jounals up to snuff), you can take another lap and really make some money. If you want, use 5 contracts and real money. To make this work best I am not going to post in any other threads. I will focus on adding edited text to journals and making points here briefly on those posts. What you may do is ask Q's here about what I posted in the journals. If I have to deal with moderators I am only going to note the current lesson they are on. At this point I have no scheduled surgery for the forseeable future. This is the game plan. Your job is to learn and make money and post how you do it. This will finally help traderkay out.
[relocated to this Journal at the request of Jack] In my opinion the rocket this a.m. was a thing of beauty. Text book entry at 998.25 short and then cover in the automatic +10 area. Too bad I had satellite problems. Volume has been pretty bad this afternoon. Volume is nothing compared to this morning. HA HA, I KNEW IT !!! Jack, you're a TEACHER! Both of my parents are teachers. That's why I don't take what you say with offense. I was taught the learning process at a young age, and every seasoned prof I know is pretty much like you. I am personally very glad you have decided to leave those of us who will listen a part of your body of knowledge. 9 points is not bad just to have your listening ears on. With the volume so low this afternoon, should we be slaloming or stay out of the market? Bracket and go short on the break. Attachment I have been bracketing and doing pretty well. I was just wondering what other slalomers where doing today. At what time did you bracket or do you bracket on vdu? I have been doing a bunch of washes this afternoon with a with a few 10 cent plays. Great day for me. Up 150 cents(15pts). thnks Jack. Posted by bubba7 on 07-16-03 01:31 PM: See Attachment The chart posted is kewl I suggest that you turn the .618 thing upside down if you can. for those who use r' and s's. they work no matter what. both of these things are early warning systems as I see it. Okay I put in some eraser marks (took out black) to show stop entries. I labelled the points 1,2,3. and I added the left channel line. when point 3 needed replacing i put in the new point 3. More will follow. Posted by bubba7 on 07-16-03 01:42 PM: Narrative. Use the chart for the narrative below: we are in a short and there are no flaws. we get to a place where we are on right line and the price begins to move down again. we have relief. Now we see several things going on. Our home base deep down inside is the P, V relation and things are clicking for 20 mins meaning four bars on increasing volume no new stops coming up as it turns out. Can this continue? You do ask stuff all the time and sometimes (hehe) it is fear oriented still. well the key shows up. You do see that thevolumes is pooping out on a visual basis and you go to a pro rata test using the prior bar on the five. You SEE CLEARLY a VDU coming up. Get the "VDU" flaw card out. IT says For beginners Exit, You are on S or R for today. For all others it syas "go to "Change mode". There is an action for every flaw card. THe VDU card is a very BIG card. It is a trend ender par excellence See some chartruse circles laying around. The MACD was telegraphing. I use telegraphing to mean giving warning signs ahead of time. The long line shows all the clear and multitudinous signalsthat accompany VDU. By inventing VDU we have a major antifreeze flaw card. you can see the slalom starts with the "change" modus for people beyond beginner.. I will make another post. I lost all this and the next post so i am separatingstuff. The next post is a super keeper. Bracket and go short on the break. Okay Icarus, run throught the bracket and short on the break, I am not sure I understand this concept, as I saw no viable trades during the DU period. [color=greenDU period = CCC. Bracket on the channel. It looked like the BO might be down, but it was up. I passed on it.[/color] I am having trouble understanding jack last post, could someone maybe post the times or price values for a couple of the points he is talking about.
[relocated to this Journal at the request of Jack] Super Keeper post. Here we go. I want you to know a very important thing about each of yourselves. I have done something that you need to thoroughly understand. Lets focus on you. You now have the singular tool you need to correct all the past difficulties you have had. Anyone anywhere can use this with any method they have and simply work their way out of every problem they have making money. Use the flaw card approach as a card that applies to all mistakes that hit you or come your way. Make up a card for each defined thing that hits your space. If you do sequences it is very easy. If you don't it is different. This card is a is neutral card, meaning it applies to your situation as a person. Everyone proceeds to get better as they go along. People who buy into full blown programs and take a plunge can use their personal logs to ID stuff that needs dealing with. There is a kindred connection to flaws and early bad experiences people have. We know flaws tell us to act and we act as required. Bad experiences rate cards too. I will use the "hair trigger" card as an example. It lets me make the key point for showing how cards can solve all problems. We know flaw cards are able to tell us what to do. These other cards relate to another kind of situation. They all relate to how what a person does affects making money.. Flaw cards deal with what the market does and how we follow suit to make mopney in the market. A person is operating. He has a personal "hair trigger". On the other side of the card there is written what is on the other side of all such cards. It says "Where did you acquire this?" Nothing comes with the territory. It all comes from somewhere. The real process of dealing with person situation cards is to replace the picture that is the present trigger with the proper picture. We have definitely dealt with the hair trigger card. I mostly used a point 3 focus. We got through point 3. Some pervasive hair triggers called for getting to point 2. You look ahead to the sequential action to write the answer on a flaw card. For personal situation cards of every sort, you look back in time at yourself and see the picture you have. You dig very deep and define the picture. I use four steps with mentorees. I use the steps several times in an hour at the beginning These steps take more time at the start than anything else. You get the picture drawn out. You seek and discover exactly what you need to replace it. (this is the key to mentoring: finding pictures and replacing them). there is one question that answers what is needed. The question is a process question. "What do you want to happen?" Today someone did a thread. He said I have a hair trigger and I missed 12 points by getting out early. He did not say what he wanted to happen. He asked other things. After you define the picture that is present, step 2 is to define what you want to happen. The answer to the hair trigger is: I want to stay in each trade as long as I can make money. I request that the person reaffirm that and add to it any caveats he needs. There are none usually. making a statement like "Iwant to stay in the trade as long as I can make money (right to the end of it), is the place to go to. This is as far away from being a hair trigger as you can get. The last thing (4th step) is to move on. Just move on and spend your time with what comes up. You have seen people here get through hair trigger. they are oriented towards focussing on what they need to be doing. They face directly away from hair trigger land. You can examine exactly where you are and how you got there. In elsewhere in ET there are some really tough nuts to crack. You see them taking laps on the same problem. They have never changed one picture they have. We thoroughly know the pictures. if you look at threads, you see mostly statements about problems and elucidations ad nauseam. The required follow on to this kind of stuff is to answer thoroughly "What do you want?" Affirm what you want and move on. Erase and then make a space for the picture you want. You are then asking to learn and you have a place for what you learn. When we worked through hair trigger here we worked through in detail slowly getting all the way to a new point 3 then looking at the failure to traverse and seeing the VDU come on the scene. This is not a personal solution seemingly. It looks like dealing with the market. Actually it was a personal thing. There were people facing directly away from hair trigger. There were people sweating and holding. People stuff. People said later when they made mistakes about what ever, they said I will review how I handled that successfully before. I will check out how I did that right. This is dusting off behavior that is there and operational and looking at the contemporary situation as a mistake made departing from the normal. Bring up what screwy (personal situation card). Go through remedying it. Use the remedy. See if and when you do not deploy, you see it as a mistake. Review and iteratively refine. This reestablishes your remedy. When you have a problem making money, it is a personal situation. We know absolutely that flaws are market signals for action in making money. You now know that if there is not a market flaw there to act upon and you are not making money that you have a person situation to make a card on and do the four steps. You will always get a remedy. Here is a bottom line fact. If you have the consciousness to discern a problem, you absolutely have the skill, knowledge and experience to solve the problem. It may be hard to do. You may have to turn the problem into another problem by partial solutions. But in the end you do solve all of the problem you discerned. We now separate market flaws and presonal situations. Because you are now reading the first sentence over again you will also see that you are very comfortable with dealing with person situations. I am doing an edit on stuff and putting it in journals. You will notice my run on first passes copy at stuff are easier to read when you do. As you do your personal journals, which meld this stuff into your approaches, you will find fewer and fewer personal situations. You all do show yourselves as having really clear and strong pictures about more and more of this stuff. People here are getting "realizations". They are spending more and more time in "text book situations". The energy levels and the cleaner filters are visible to me in the posts I read. That "push" at the end of the day really sets us up for tomorrow. Posted by icarus618 on 07-16-03 04:01 PM: Looks like the push at the end of the day might have been a bull trap. Open gap down below support? Let's wait to find out. Tomorrow could be an awesome day. Color=blue]Quote from nwbprop: Volume has been pretty bad this afternoon. Volume is nothing compared to this morning.[/color] Super. the volume cut off with the VDU was so emphatic. Quote from nwbprop: I have been bracketing and doing pretty well. I was just wondering what other slalomers where doing today. At what time did you bracket or do you bracket on vdu? I have been doing a bunch of washes this afternoon with a with a few 10 cent plays. Great day for me. Up 150 cents(15pts). thnks Jack. The VDU was a "change" signal for intermediates and experts. This means an exit that is done with a reversal. You go long and set the periodicity by following the trend to completion. I It is a narrow long trend points 1,2,3 etc. You do not leave the "change" modus. The cardinal reason is that the volume level is staying the same. Notice big time, I mean big big time that you have a rising trend on low volume. Put this in your IT term fractal considerations. The indicators take you out of the trend AGAIN it is a reversal because of being in the "change" modus. You find yourself on the prior reversal value at 15:00 plus. Look at the divergence on the STOC after 50% (not before). It is sustained. At about 990, you reverse. Pro rata volume is picking up past Okay Icarus, run throught the bracket and short on the break, I am not sure I understand this concept, as I saw no viable trades during the DU period. Cheat a little on steady low volume. On the 5min go to a scale more fine than the 10 point. I go to 5 point divisions. You also do not have a VDU flaw card for experts.. It says go to change mode. You reverse on the exit. Beginners are using a VDU flaw card that says Exit. They do. they make money. If you missed the VDU it is not a problem. You will not ever miss another VDU. VDU sticks to absolutely everyone when they learn it. If they set up stars for making money in Hollywood sometime, there will be a VDU star there.
DU period = CCC. Bracket on the channel. It looked like the BO might be down, but it was up. I passed on it. Oh, okay, difference in vernacular, I thought there was something I missed. Nothing good in the afternoon, there was an EOD rocket for a couple of points, but that's all I saw. Thanks a lot Jack. This has been a great and fun experience. I just had a few questions and thoughts about today. What do you mean by IT term fractal considerations? I am guessing that IT term means intermediate trend. What signals should we be looking at for low volume trends. Todays stoch sequence for low volume trends = fast line stoch entwining the slow stoch 3 or 4 times above or below the 50%line. Next time when i get that point 3 on a low volume trend, i am going to just do it and enter and wait for that flaw to pop up. I have noticed that during slaloming, prior to the vdu, price makes a push to support or resistance for a failed BO and is accompanied by a big volume spike(1 min chart, buyers and sellers switching hands at failed BO point). I have been using the volume spike as the cue(signal instead of vdu) to take the reversal slalom. I usually get a better print and the vdu usually comes within the next few minutes after the volume spike. Is this incorrect thinking since vdu seem to be the key? Quote from bundlemaker: OK, I looked over the link that Nkhoi provided. Now I'm waaaaaay more confused than ever. Jack talks about adding/subtracting 2 and 7 from something. He talks about numbers ending in 0 or 5. He speaks of trough/peaks (that sounds like pivot points to me) and then also says to take reading every 7 1/2 minutes. My apologies to those that "get this" for asking the same thing again. My sincere question still stands: can somebody explain in precise, unambiguous detail, exactly what a stop log is, how you determine what you log, and how specifically you use it. I have really worked hard to understand this stuff. I've spent scores of hours printing and editing and thinking. Every new post and I'm more confused than before. Can anybody help? I do not fully understand it either but i think we have to take things in strides. Therefore, I started with a more basic approach. I have started to just monitor the highs and lows every 7 and half minutes. After monitoring for a couple days, it seems that the market seems to make its pushes or fails to make pushes every 7 and half minutes. Hope this helps. Cheat a little on steady low volume. On the 5 go to a scale more fine than the 10 point. I go to 5 point divisions. You also do not have a VDU flaw card for experts.. It says go to change mode. You reverse on the exit. Beginners are using a VDU flaw card that says Exit. They do. they make money. If you missed the VDU it is nota ploblem. you will not ever miss another VDU. VDU sticks to absolutely everyone when they learn it. If they set up stars for making money in Hollywood sometime, there will be a VDU star there. Posted by bundlemaker on 07-16-03 06:58 PM: nwbprop, Yes, thank you, actually it does very much. My post obviously shows some bit of desparation. I made the mammouth error of blowing off this thread early on last February. Only a month ago I started reading the whole thread through and was shocked by the results some were achieving. Been trying to play catch up ever since. A big thank you to all who have helped, there have been several. Re: a question about different fractals Quote from CrescitEundo: "The point is this: I want you to be in fractal heaven. I am getting you to a place where you can dicern what fractal to be on by looking at the performance of the indicators signals we use to make money." I have had this question for a couple days. When you talk about using different fractals you regularly use the same ones, 1,(3), 5, 15, 30 etc. It was very kewl to see that a iceberg on the 5 min could be a rocket on the 15... I recognize the need for simplicity and keeping everyone in the same place but i was wondering; are these simply the fractals that work best, and they are sort of a 'perminant' gift, or at times is there a different optimizal fractal in between. what I mean is this once you have a trend channel, when you bounce of the right side it occurs at the 80-20 stoc if you are on the right fractal. couldn't you search for the right fractal that put these two things in line and then get a 'cleaner' signals from this? I use seven fractals. They are spaced roughly as multiples. I determined what I use as a trade off between making money (personal performance) and the potential yield of the market on that fractal. I figure the market yield from getting signals and stuff. there is an excel spread sheet I made up partly to let people play with their efficiency and the market efficiency to see breakevens relative to the potential. The fractals are the columns and the rows show diferent periods of examination like days, weeks, months, quarters, and years. There is also a leaning aspect to things to consider as you point out. Use the daily on the ES03U. Set up the channel. You see that one hold is up about 150 points. This is in a way a guide to performance for the two quarters. Go to the 5 min and see four channels that got 19 points to day. It is a line on the daily. the line is shorter than the 19 points. You can make a coeficient for any fractal's H/L range to get a possible yield in points. The coefficient is above 1.00 I use 5 min and 1 min for expert trading on futures indexes. I use 30 min and 5 min on equities except for analysis; there I use dailies in several web sites. I am efficient in both places and I am able to realize most of the potential of the market. I believe it is difficult for people to intuit the compound interest formula output. If you look at the trade off of more cycles vs more profit, you are optimizing by using a minimization technique against a maximization technique. This is not just something that intuition gives you the answers. Quote from bundlemaker: OK, I looked over the link that Nkhoi provided. Now I'm waaaaaay more confused than ever. Jack talks about adding/subtracting 2 and 7 from something. He talks about numbers ending in 0 or 5. .. Can anybody help? I don't understand that part either but that is a ok you don't need to know everything at the same time.