Fully automated futures trading

Discussion in 'Journals' started by globalarbtrader, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. To calculate carry you need matching prices in the two contracts. Do these have to be trades? Not neccessarily. In fact it might be worse, if for example you took the last trade in two contracts; but one of those trades occured just before the close, and the other in an illiquid contract.

    I use quoted prices at the close. What if a contract isn't trading? There will nearly always be a quote at the close. Usuually this will be 'marked to model'. The spread will therefore be accurate even if no trades have actually taken place.

    Here for example are the prices I have for Sep and June:

    Code:
    Sep
    2020-02-26 23:00:00  121.703125  27467
    2020-02-27 23:00:00  121.796875  27475
    2020-02-28 23:00:00  122.750000  27483
    
    June
    2020-02-26 18:22:18  121.566406  27456
    2020-02-26 23:00:00  121.585938  27457
    2020-02-27 14:06:55  121.933594  27460
    2020-02-27 15:16:28  122.042969  27461
    2020-02-27 16:24:20  121.886719  27462
    2020-02-27 17:24:45  121.792969  27463
    2020-02-27 18:25:10  121.753906  27464
    2020-02-27 23:00:00  121.937500  27465
    2020-02-28 14:20:03  122.503906  27468
    2020-02-28 15:27:17  122.550781  27469
    2020-02-28 16:36:04  122.558594  27470
    2020-02-28 17:36:28  122.535156  27471
    2020-02-28 18:36:59  122.597656  27472
    2020-02-28 23:00:00  122.570312  27473
    2020-03-02 14:10:54  123.050781  27476
    2020-03-02 15:11:19  123.207031  27477
    2020-03-02 16:11:33  123.121094  27478
    2020-03-02 17:12:11  123.003906  27479
    2020-03-02 18:12:24  122.996094  27480
    2020-03-02 23:00:00  122.601562  27481
    
    23:00 is the pseudo timestamp for a closing price. I don't sample the forward contract intraday. There are matched prices for 26,27,28 February.

    Sometimes the quote is stale and there is a jump in the carry signal. Big deal. Because I'm trading carry with a smooth that doesn't impact the signal so much. Sometimes you don't even get a quote, like for yesterday. Big deal. At the extreme end, as long as I got a pair of matched prices every time I rolled (the minimum required for the backadjustment to work) I could calculate carry.

    If you want to get very anal about this and say you won't use carry at all then I respect your decision, but there is no evidence that having a 'poorer quality' carry signal leads to poorer Sharpe; quite the opposite since the problem is endemic in bond futures which have very high carry returns (could be Beta... see below), whereas in commodities with long series of traded contracts carry doesn't work so well.

    We're trying to forecast roughly what a price is doing based on an imperfect indicator. We're not doing cash-futures arbitrage. We're not trading the Jun-Sep spread. We don't have to be anal about this.

    Correct, but this is a pain that needs quite a bit more data (at AHL we used to use the underlying govvie interest rate curve to calculate carry

    Others, like me, use the carry rule on every single instrument :)


    That's a perfectly valid stance to take. Just bear in mind one point: do you calculate momentum based on a total return series? (like a back adjusted futures price series) Then you will have an implicit allocation to carry and the carry factor. So I would be surprised if removing it had a huge effect. I don't optimise in the presence of my long only portfolio so I haven't checked this myself. My long only has a momentum overlay anyway so I'm more likely to want a bit less momentum.

    (This also means that if you have carry and total return momentum, your allocation to carry is higher than you think)

    GAT
     
    #2011     Mar 3, 2020
    wopr likes this.
  2. tgibson11

    tgibson11

    IB also offers snapshot quotes that could be used to work around this problem. They charge a few cents per quote depending on the market, and will automatically upgrade you to a subscription in any month that you spend more than the subscription fee would have been.

    I don't know if a bit more diversification would justify even this cost, but it's certainly cheaper than paying for full market data, especially for anyone who has to pay the exorbitant "professional" rates.

    https://ibkr.info/article/2830
     
    #2012     Mar 3, 2020
    globalarbtrader likes this.
  3. FCT

    FCT

    I’m intrigued by the ‘quirks in the SET50’ comment. What does this mean?
     
    #2013     Mar 3, 2020
  4. Kernfusion

    Kernfusion

    yes, I meant September, sorry
     
    #2014     Mar 3, 2020
    wopr likes this.
  5. Yeah, you can make it arbitrarily complex depending on how anal you are.

    In a lot of smaller index futures, there are various specific captive flows or product details. Sometimes it's possible to find ways to make some money in a low-risk way, if you know where to look. The problem with these strategies (for someone like myself) is capacity.
     
    #2015     Mar 3, 2020
  6. traider

    traider

    What are captive flows?
     
    #2016     Mar 3, 2020
  7. What is this, a vocabulary night? :D
    A lot of institutions are forced to trade things - hedge, cover their positions, show lower risk for the books. All of these trades are done not because they love to sell futures specifically if it rains at 2pm, but because they have no choice. If you know that people like these are coming to trade, you can make a little cash for yourself.
     
    #2017     Mar 3, 2020
    ironchef and FCT like this.
  8. gkishot

    gkishot

    Were you able to monetize your strategy there?
     
    #2018     Mar 4, 2020
  9. FCT

    FCT

    Thanks - interesting!
     
    #2019     Mar 4, 2020
  10. No interest in doing so

    GAT
     
    #2020     Mar 4, 2020
    Same Lazy Element likes this.