Fully automated futures trading

Discussion in 'Journals' started by globalarbtrader, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. itb

    itb

    Hey @globalarbtrader, do you see anything wrong with my plan? Thanks :)
     
    #1381     Jan 18, 2018
  2. Interesting point. How do you think a max volatility threshold should be determined?
     
    #1382     Jan 18, 2018
  3. As a pedantic point even FX has carry. If you're trading forwards or futures it's obvious; if you're trading spot then it's the daily net interest.

    GAT
     
    #1383     Jan 18, 2018
  4. Ignoring the issue of whether the annual vol target is too high;

    The first issue is that 80K isn't going to generate much 'income'. I guess you could put it into money market funds and earn 1.5%, i.e. $1,200 a year. I have a mortgage, five kids and a cat to feed and I need more like a 100 grand. So this works fine if you have nearly 7 million bucks spare.

    Alternatively you can take capital risk on your 'income' producing asset and with an unleveraged mixture of stocks and bonds probably make 4%. I'd 'only' need 2.5 million to make this work [and in fact this is obviously pretty close to what I do].

    The final problem is that your 'income' is going to be correlated to your trading performance. Let's say you lose 30% of your notional (not unlikely given a 30% vol target at some point). At that point your margin requirement is 60%*140K = 84K and you have 140K - 84K = 56K left in the bank. So now your 'income' producing asset has fallen by 30%. I don't know about you but I can't cut 30% of my income that much.

    The other problem is that of the 60K we have lost we've had to cough up 40% of that from our 'income'. If we've taken capital risk with our 'income', and that's also done badly, we're screwed.

    What you can't do is say assume you can draw down that 80K, perhaps over a couple of years if you need 40K a year, in the event of a drawdown.


    GAT
     
    #1384     Jan 18, 2018
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  5. truetype

    truetype

    Have you ever traded before? For a long-term strategy such as trend, your positions should be sized such that (1) you sleep soundly at night (2) you don't feel compelled to screenwatch during the day (3) [along the lines of GAT's comments] your lifestyle won't be impacted by a 1- 2 Sharpe drawdown.
     
    #1385     Jan 18, 2018
  6. I've been futures trend following for about 6 months at 30% volatility. I'm okay on your points 1 and 2, but can you clarify what is a "1-2 sharpe drawdown"? Thanks.
     
    #1386     Jan 18, 2018
  7. truetype

    truetype

    The past 6 months have been good for the trendies, fueled by the persistent equity rally. But the future -- who knows? Re: 1- 2 Sharpe, I mean a loss of 1- 2× your target vol (in your case, 30%) -- which can and will happen with a sub-1 Sharpe strategy such as trendfollowing. Even Cantab, widely considered a top-drawer London trendie, had a ~2 Sharpe drawdown in 2013.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    #1387     Jan 18, 2018
  8. Thanks for the clarification. I feel that I could endure a 60% drawdown (or maybe I am deluding myself). In any case I could do worse just buying and holding the S&P500, right?
     
    #1388     Jan 18, 2018
  9. truetype

    truetype

    Trendfollowing true-believers think their strategy is comparable to S&P in the long run, ½- ¾ Sharpe, so, yes, drawdowns would be comparable.
     
    #1389     Jan 19, 2018
  10. So, if drawdowns are comparable to buy and hold, but upside is significantly higher (30% volatility times .8 sharpe means 24% average returns, versus about 10% for sp500), I think it seems like quite a good strategy.
     
    #1390     Jan 19, 2018