_________________________________________________ Here's one of the only success stories I've had trading against an algo. Once i find i'm up against an algo, i usually take my loss, kick my wounds, and move on to another stock. I'm not posting this story to "boast", just hoping to spark a few of the more experienced traders to post a success story they have had against an algo, or how they trade against them. Several responding to this post say you can ride there coattails, or exploit them somehow. Feel free to send it to me as a private message if you don't want to post it here. Here is mine: I was trading AXP about a month ago. The stock was trending higher around lunch, the quiet time of the day. I tried to join in to its' trend, but every time i took a position, it turned against me. I went back and forth on it several times, in, stop out, in stop out, in, out, etc... Every single time I took a position it went against me. Not one of my trades got in the money by even a penny, even despite several indicators working in my direction. Then i just started trading it whichever way it went. I sat there in amazement as it switched direction every time i got into a position. I backed off on my size and let it keep hitting me for 3-10 cents on small shares. It must have gone on for 15-20 trades in a row, which i thought mathematically impossible, so i assumed it was either an algo, HFT, or the specialist playing with me. Whatever is was, it was right on top my trades and did not want me trading its' stock. I figured I would keep trading it in small lots just to see how many times it would actually switch on me. I thought to myself: "even though it's trying to chase me away from trading "its" stock, it had to be losing something on all the other traders coming in from the other direction". So i kept trading it for 100-200 shares, until it FINALLY gave me a few cents. My initial position was short for 100 shares, then 200. I was in the money, the algo or specialist was starting to give up. The S&P futures took a quick drop in my favor. The stock paused for a second as i watched for it to react. For the first time I SAW WEAKNESS in whatever it was. It was wounded, not from me, but from the other traders on the other side of my trades that were hurting it. It ticked down a few more cents in my favor, i saw blood, and went in for the kill. I started pounding it with 1000 share lots with almost every ounce of buying power i had. "It" didn't know i had in in me, but i did that day. After i had gotten all my money back and then some on the short position, i gave the Moth..er F..ker it's stock back for almost a 30 cent lower price and a huge grin on my face. These algo's CAN break. I've seen it even as a somewhat new trader (1 1/2 yrs full time). Experienced big volume traders: Please share your success story with me so I can learn more on how you do it. I know what i did in the above example was unwise and somewhat risky (i was deep in the money on the trade as i averaged in, the stock was trading very thick, so maybe it wasn't that risky). Please show me how to do it the right way.
If I place an order for 10000 shares and it moves away from me. I would cancel the order after a while. Then the panicked "algo" would let the price fall (to my price or below) as they seek to get out. Then I step in again, and grab the shares at the same or better prices (of course does not always work). Or I might place another big order to short at a price slightly above my buy. Then they have no option than to step away. (Again sometimes you get an unwanted fill !!)
____________________________________________ Very nice, i will try this with smaller amounts. Thanks!
lol, hard to believe you pikers think you are 'scaring' the algos. good luck to you. you'll be needing it
_________________________________________________ Have you not noticed that everybody has tuned you out on this post? You've probably been lingering around here on this Elite for years. Why are you still hanging around if you are so successful as a trader. Probably just sitting back there behind your monitor just leaching around for something that someone is going to post that will make you a profitable trader. Get a life and move on, chump!
___________________________________________________ And before you send some wise-ass response back, i want to see your blotter posted on here. I know, your going to make some excuse, "i don't need to, can't pull it up, blah, blah blah..." I think you full of bs, maybe not even a trader. 100 % guarantee you don't post your blotter up here!
the bottom line with flash orders is the regulation nms is not being upheld or is being violated especially in illiquid nasdaq stocks. that is why they are getting rid of this practice because trade throughs are happening all the time ex. bid 20 ask 20.40 i go hidden 20.30 offer i get 1 shared by a bot that wants me out of his way to flash order on bid and hit it. print goes off 20.36 i dont get filled then i also have bids at 20.10 get odd lotted again and trade prints 20.06 happens all the time over the last few months. between flash orders and dark pools i feel like i am going up against the skulls. hey if i could be part of a secret society i would be taking full advantage too.
It look a like flash orders are being eliminated according to some news articles I've seen on the internet lately.
the crap you pikers are talking about has been going on for years. by the time you caught on , I had figured out how to beat the scam. I remember some other clown who used to talk about his 'blotters' and show me your 'blotter' this must be the 20th nick he's used since then. I'll show you all the proof you need when you show proof that one of the claims of frontrunning made here actually happened. This is the only proof that's been offered so far.
Quote from pacific7: Thanks, i have been a little more selective lately. Some stocks are just plain outright blatant cheats. They are run/traded either by a few big market makers, a rip-off specialist, or very sophisticated algo's. Whatever the con artist, they make the stock impossible to trade for even the best traders. Translation: Quote from Mr Happy: Thanks, i have been looking for another line of work lately. Some stocks are just plain outright blatant cheats. They are run/traded either by a few big market makers, a rip-off specialist, or very sophisticated algo's. All better than me. Whatever the con artist, they make the stock impossible for me to frontrun , even with my profound skills. I may have to get a real Job.