Front Running, Flash Orders, or Blackbox/Algorithmic Manipulation?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by pacific7, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. ???? What do u mean ?
     
    #151     Aug 21, 2009
  2. he makes a couple of good points for HFT.

    It's Evolution...
     
    #152     Aug 22, 2009
  3. From what he said : EDGX/A ROUX & ROUE orders don't FLASH either.

    asuroux is one of those
     
    #153     Aug 22, 2009
  4. pacific7

    pacific7

    __________________________________________________

    Ok, thx

    I've gotten more valuable info here than i ever got at my intitial firm (won't mention names). Red_ Inc (and others) have given me some great advice which has really helped my particular issue!
     
    #154     Aug 22, 2009
  5. They don't provide any liquidity, quite the contrary, they create all kinds of fake volume that's misleading and employ strategies that were not available even 10 years ago.

    When you lie, it's easy to "make good points". They are not evolutionary, faster execution etc. They distort the market for their profit. Could you pay to have your very own 2 second advantage 10 years ago? No..
     
    #155     Aug 23, 2009
  6. what can u do? Ban computers from trading ? Or put speed limits , min holding periods or min time to cancel?
    Volume will just go overseas...
     
    #156     Aug 23, 2009
  7. The markets are the totally Darwinian in nature. You either evolve or die. It really is as simple as that. As in the real world, fairness has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    IMHO, those people arguing that the clock needs to be turned back 10 years sound a bit like a bunch of dinosaurs talking about how great things used to be before that big ball of fire appeared in the sky.
     
    #157     Aug 24, 2009
  8. This is well said and exactly what is going on.

    It sounds like some of you guys are trading thin stocks with reasonable size - but what's to say that the orders that "dissapear" aren't limit, FOK, AON, etc. and you don't get the fill because of some other more realistic explanation? I understand that people (or machines) out there do see your order before others and would have an opportunity to take your order first or (possibly) step in front of you but is it really costing you a dime? If so maybe consider a different name or use limit orders only.

    Also, FWIW, IB crosses orders internally before routing to an exchange. Also, most of the "flash quotes" you see being put up are only there to play with the MM/Specialist's order execution systems. The big size you see moving around halfway down the L2 bouncing between the bid & ask has nothing to do with your live order as long as your live order is at or between the spread.
     
    #158     Aug 25, 2009
  9. nitro

    nitro

    Only if you route "SMART". That is why it is cheaper to route SMART through IB than not in the API. They can "lean" on the order that way.
     
    #159     Aug 25, 2009