From Prop to ------

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by kamdooo, May 12, 2005.

  1. kamdooo


    Many people have told me that prop trading on a resume is death. You don't want it to cross-over into any other field because HR doesn't like it.

    I wonder, because I have no experience with this. I have my doubts though:

    I'm going to clarify something just for this thread....I don't believe it to be true necessarily....but just so there is no confusion.

    prop trading = there absolutely must be a salary. If you can't report a salary to a future employer, thats not good. Examples are Mako, Optiver, DE Shaw, DRW, ect...

    arcade trading = no salary, maybe a draw. Places like Assent, Echo, Bright,

    1) I can buy the fact that being a self employed trader or remote arcade trader doesn't impress anyone, even if you make cash.

    2) I can't buy the fact that working at a place with a salary doesn't get respect.

    Lets put it this way. People don't really no jack shit about hedge funds. If you wanted to work at a marketing firm, and you said you worked at a random hedge fund, they would have no idea whether that was a good thing or bad. How can they judge?

    My feeling is that if you have an ivy education or some other bs, then you could trade at an arcade and cross-over into another profession, not trading related.

    My hunch is that alot of arcade shops atrract people who don't meet pedigree point is that when i went to a few prop shops, i wasn't exactly impressed by the schools attended. Even at a place with a salary i just visited, nothing to brag about. (south western institute of automotive repair state)

    So it could just be that prop/arcade trading attracts people with less shiny bs on their resume. Or maybe hr just doesn't like traders unless they come from a place like UBS.

    I just can't believe that a trader from DE Shaw has a difficult time taking someone elses job, say in marketing or brokering...
  2. DE Shaw pays its traders a salary. A big one. They usually don't have a hard time moving on to other things, but rarely does a Shaw guy move into another trading job. The ones I've known move back into academia and/or research.

    I would imagine if anyone has a problem with prop trading on a resume, its from places like Schony or Bright...any place with true prop (no initial) or arcades. Especially if you blow your account up.

    I have a hard time seeing anyone have a hard time if they were netting 150K + a year and will verify it through tax returns or statements.

    However, all somebody has to do is look at the "Whats the funniest thing you've seen at a prop firm" thread here and see how it is to hire a bunch of chowderheads that think its OK to do dumb stuff while you are supposed to be trading.
  3. buylo


    I think you should look for a prop firm that focuses on making a living and not rolling the dice.

    If it is your first job, you SHOULD be concerned with what their focus is. Commissions or keeping you around and HELPING you make profits. Prop firms are all different and it is very important to do your homework on everyone. Their ways run the spectrum from churn and burn to let's do this together.

    Most of the guys around here went to Big 10 schools. Wisco, Iowa, Illinois, Michigan. All the Ivy League schmucks who walk in here haven't added up to dogs**t. Now they're all sucking on my kneecaps (Wall Street ref.).

    Seriously, most Ivy's couldn't comprehend that they spent so much money on education that they have to start out with 1 lots in the shatz.
  4. sle


    well, an ivy grad that goes to a prop firm is not too bright to begin with, since he could not get into an i-bank. my general sense was that propsters in real prop firms really do know how to trade and probably would be welcome in a mid-size hf.
  5. buylo


    No thanks. I wouldn't want to take the pay cut.
  6. sle


    don't take me wrong, but i'd not buy that one. running cap at a fund most certainly beats any prop shot i've dealt with. let's see - mid-size HF would be aprox. 150mm, say you make 20%/annum and take 20% of that home.
  7. buylo


    Working at or running the fund?
  8. upordown


    and making a $30,000,000 profit for the fund is a walk in the park.
  9. Midas


    If you choose to work for someone else maybe not. I made money daytrading and started my own corporation.
  10. You make it sound so simple, SLE. Run a mid-size 150mm hf and get your 20% return and take your 20% cut... there are many more headaches and concerns than you think.

    Even then, the founder and head of the fund is taking a big chunk of the incentive fees.

    If you are trading for yourself, no client obligations or pressures, can do anything as you choose without giving some bs marketing crap to the clients.

    The only real advantage to running or working at a fund is if you aren't good enough to make it on your own and scared to take on the risk, then you just hide at a hf where you use the clients' money effectively as a free option.
    #10     May 14, 2005