In poker you have an easily identifiable edge (crap players), which never goes away. In trading you have no easily identifiable edge, and most identifiable edges disappear after a few years as the inefficiences get exploited or just go away. Therefore, making profits from trading is much more difficult than in poker. Secondly, poker has clearly defined rules and possible hands, and table stakes means your loss is limited; in trading, the markets do not have a limied number of "hands", but can have unprecedented moves, and due to leverage you can lose more than you have in your account - this results in trading having much more risk than poker. Third, trading has running costs such as charting, internet connection, office space, slippage, commissions, news sources etc, whereas in poker you get comps for live games and only pay when you win a pot. Fourth, psychological issues are much more critical - in poker when you go on tilt, you generally only lose what you have at the table; in the markets if you go on tilt, you can lose everything you have and go into massive debt. Finally, the minimum stakes in trading are higher than in poker, and there is no "easy" table to play at, equivalent to $3-6, where you can learn your skills. All this IMO makes trading much harder than poker. The advantage of trading is that if you crack it, you can make much more than in poker.
I've been finding that many good traders make good poker players in my limited experience. However, I have yet to find a good poker player that turned into a good trader.
You guys might like this, from new Stocks and Commodities. BTW, all who want a free one year subscription, please send me an email with your name and address to: don@stocktrading.com From magazine: www.traders.com (click on title). Complete article: www.stocktrading.com/pokermarch.html Don
Don, As a fellow ex pro gambler ( Poker, Bac and Card Counting), I respect your abilities both in the Casino and as a trader. BUT I have found that playing poker especially online has been a negative for my trading especially the following day after a session, even though my poker game was doing well. I'm shocked that you promote it to your traders because I would agree on some similarities BUT I found that the "LUCK" factor of poker is damaging for the trader mind set. Just my opinion.
A certainly welcome your opinion, but since I am surrounded by those who make good money at each, I have to respectfully disagree about the luck factor. Yes, luck is part of poker....but just to back up my thoughts, let me quote something from last year's WSOP. 5600 entrants for all events. 26 pro friends from team Full Tilt. Team full tilt took away over 10% of all the prize money without making the final table. This at least says that the professionals are much more likely to win than all the lucky amateurs combined. It's funny though, my "guys" all say that it's easier to play the top 100 pro's sometimes than most of the amateurs, sheer volume of players...and they don't know enough to lay down hands, LOL. We have a new Bright Trader, Ron Rose (www.ron-rose.com/ron/index.html ) ... his book, etc.)...and he gave a dozen of us a free 5 hour presentation that has really helped my online poker.... I play primarily heads up...usually only lasts 20-30 minutes....play aggressively, making "some" money. Another full tilter, Ruth G. who was on my radio show makes about $20K per month...she has such a good "win rate" that the people at party poker thought she was a computer, kept kicking her off or making her type in new passwords while playing....so some do pretty well, just like trading. He actually used to trade on the AMEX, and came up with several more similarities during his presentation. Anyway, gotta do something when the market is closed, right? I'm planning a month long tour of Europe and Scandanavia to play in 4 tournaments....at least it will keep me from being bored. All the best, Don
RYL, If you have the skill and discipline to be a money making poker player I'd bet you have a good probability of being a profitable trader. First thing to do (which you're probably already doing) is to ignore all the nay-sayers. They're just projecting their failure and insecurities. You're on the right track about increasing your trading stake up from $5,000..although $50,000 may be too much. Although I Don Bright never replies to my simple e-mails (Don, is the Saratoga office still open? No reply) that shop might be your best bet. Take a trip to Vegas and meet with them and some of their better traders. If you're a broker then you already have your series 7. Read as much stuff as you can. There are some good threads on this site. There are some other great sites too(PM me if you want them). Good luck. If Bright Trading isn't a good fit I'd recommend Echotradeonline.com and Vtradergroup too. Uptik2000
I played poker about 3 times per week for 5 years, and I don't see much similarity with trading at all... save one thing. That is, figure out what's DUMB and don't do it.
Sorry I missed you...I only miss emails when I travel it seems .. and I apologize. No, the Saratoga office closed when the lease' was up, as we are trying desperately to do....most firms don't need/want a bunch of offices any more. The reason for us having 44 offices in the 1990's was that the T-1 lines would cost us nearly $20K for each office....now that everyone can get the same connectivity for $50 at home. We're keeping a dozen or so "primary" locations, and have started a new crop of affiliates (traders who get together and rent a place themselves). All the best, Don