For those who short naked CALLs

Discussion in 'Options' started by The_Krakenite, Jan 25, 2022.

  1. ET180

    ET180

    Been doing it for years. Key is small positions so if one breaches your strike, it won't cause you to lose sleep. For example, today I sold a 700 strike MSTR call expiring in Feb for 0.9. For that thing to hit its strike, the underlying will need to double in less than a month. If it's still at this same level in about a week, the premium will be cut in about half. I also frequently short SPX naked calls expiring in 3 - 5 days for around 0.40 credit. The underlying would have to move so far to hit that strike that the rest of my portfolio would be guaranteed to have a substantial profit by the time it gets there.
     
    #11     Jan 25, 2022
    The_Krakenite and richie90 like this.
  2. maxinger

    maxinger

    I did it 4 decades ago.

    I sold naked options and collected $50 happily as professional writers/talkers
    said most options expired worthless.

    Then I had sleepless nights.
    2 days later, I cut loss with a heavy heart and I lost $2000.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    #12     Jan 26, 2022
  3. qlai

    qlai

    Well, than they are not really naked.
     
    #13     Jan 26, 2022
  4. taowave

    taowave

    Its a bad trade,as in picking up pennies in front of a steamroller..

    Whats your return on the MSTR call assuming it goes out worthless???

    If its a 1 month trade,you are looking at 3 percent..

    How many would you sell?? Agreed,the key is SMALL as its a hobby not a business.....

    Selling wings is a suckers bet




     
    #14     Jan 26, 2022
  5. ET180

    ET180

    The trade doesn't tie up $35k worth of capital so the return is much greater than 3%. Although I don't really look at it in those terms. Why don't you call up your local insurance company and tell them that they are picking up pennies in front of a steam roller?
     
    #15     Jan 26, 2022
  6. taowave

    taowave

    You are short a garbage call on a 350 dollar high vol stock..

    Who gives a fook on the margin..
    You don't get paid on return on margin,and you are smart enough to not lever up..

    It's flat out dumb,and thats why your max size is a 1 lot










     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
    #16     Jan 26, 2022
  7. Agreed,the key is SMALL as its a hobby not a business...

    Well- good point there to bring up. If you make too much money selling too many options, over here (Canada) the CRA will come after you and demand so much more in taxes, stating it's no longer a hobby. They will rule it as a business.

    On the flip side, you get screwed again. Because if you only LOSE money doing that, then the CRA says, well it's just a Hobby and not a business, so we won't give you any tax break. :(
     
    #17     Jan 26, 2022
  8. ET180

    ET180

    I was just pointing out that you calculated the return wrong. If you think it's a dumb strategy, then take the other side of the trade and buy the garbage call. Obviously, you think it has the *potential* to explode much greater than the value of the premium. Buy enough of those garbage / lottery calls and maybe one day you'll be right.
     
    #18     Jan 26, 2022
  9. taowave

    taowave

    Im really not calculating the return wrong....Im ignoring return on margin as in Reg T vs Portfolio Margin...Its not meaningful ay the end of the day...Here is why..If I hand you 5 million bucks to manage,do you think you are going to get "paid" if you have a staggeringly high return on margin,but dismal return on capital??

    At the end of the day,its all about return on capital,and you simply cant make a "real" living selling cheap calls..If you backtested it,you would also see that its a trade that you may want to take the other side of..Or limit your size to a 1 lot...If it was that great a trade,you would be short size
     
    #19     Jan 27, 2022