For the Capital Punishment Opponents

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by hapaboy, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. Another convicted pedophile and rapist is set free to murder, rape, and torture again.

    How can anyone defend not ridding the earth of this evil son of a bitch?


    From 8/13/2008

    Killer taped boy's torture, prosecutor says

    BOISE, Idaho (AP) -- The crime was meticulously planned, the killer choreographing every step from his surveillance of the doomed family to the videotaped torture of one of his youngest victims.

    Yet something as simple as a locked back door, or fiercer family dogs, might have turned Joseph Edward Duncan III away.

    Duncan's federal sentencing hearing opened Wednesday with U.S. Attorney Thomas Moss outlining how the convicted pedophile terrorized the Groene family, all because he wanted to "live out his fantasy" and exact revenge on society for perceived wrongs.

    Duncan pleaded guilty last year to 10 federal charges in the kidnapping of two siblings, ages 8 and 9, and the murder of the older child. The jury will determine whether he should serve life in prison or be executed.

    Moss told jurors they'd have to watch video footage of the sexual torture of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, filmed shortly before Duncan killed him.

    Duncan forced 8-year-old Shasta Groene, the sole survivor, to watch the video. He also made her watch as he killed her brother, jurors were told.

    Duncan, who is representing himself, told the jury Wednesday that most of what Moss said was fair and accurate "up to the point of what occurred at the campground."

    He said he would testify so he could try to "clarify things."

    His standby legal counsel, Judy Clarke, has said Duncan doesn't plan to offer any mitigation, such as evidence of his own traumatic childhood.

    Shasta's videotaped statements to police will tell her story in court. It's not known if she will offer a victim impact statement.

    Duncan's past is littered with arrests and prison time for crimes ranging from car theft to rape and molestation. He is suspected in the 1996 slayings of two half-sisters from Seattle and is charged with the 1997 killing of a young boy in Riverside County, California.

    In 2005, he went to Idaho. Duncan broke into the Groenes' Coeur d'Alene home, bludgeoning 13-year-old Slade Groene, his mother, Brenda Groene, and her fiance, Mark McKenzie, before abducting Shasta and Dylan. Duncan has already pleaded guilty in state court for the three murders; the federal case concerns the crimes against Shasta and Dylan.

    Duncan had researched police investigation procedures and took steps to avoid getting caught, Moss told jurors. He bought too-large tennis shoes at a thrift store so no bloody footprints would lead police to him. He wiped down shotgun shells before loading them so there'd be no fingerprints. He loaded the first shot with BB pellets because he thought he'd have to shoot the family dogs and didn't necessarily want to kill them.

    He had a video camera, a computer and a GPS device filled with locations he thought would be handy, such as potential campsites, Moss said. He brought with him the framing hammer he used to bludgeon the older victims.

    On the night of the murders, Duncan crept across a field to the home, using a low-visibility red-bulb flashlight to guide his way. He peered into a window and saw the children sleeping. One of the family dogs saw him and growled, frightening him enough that he retreated to the fence, Moss said.

    "He made a decision: `If that back door is locked, I'm going to abort,"' Moss said Duncan later told police.

    When he turned the handle, it opened. Then the terror began.

    The dogs scurried away when they saw Duncan's gun, Moss said. Duncan bound the family, took the youngest children outside and beat the others to death.

    Then he drove away with Dylan and Shasta, making sure they knew he had killed their relatives as he headed into the Montana wilderness.

    The trio camped for several weeks at the end of a remote road. When Duncan left the camp, he tied the children to a tree with a dog chain.

    On June 22, 2005, Duncan left Shasta at the camp, taking Dylan to a cabin, where he videotaped himself sexually abusing and torturing the boy.

    "Heinous, cruel and depraved are tough words in the English language, but none of these words ... fully express the outrage of what you will see," Moss told jurors.

    After they returned to the campsite, the first thing Duncan did was show Shasta the video, Moss said.

    Then, at some point during the next four days, Shasta heard a gunshot and turned to see Dylan clutching his stomach where he'd been hit. She watched as Duncan walked over to Dylan, held the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. The gun didn't fire, Moss said, so Duncan reloaded and fired again.

    Duncan wrapped the body in a tarp, threw it on the campfire and let it burn until it was reduced to ashes. He then took Shasta back to Coeur d'Alene, stopping for a meal at a Denny's restaurant, where a waitress recognized the girl and called police.

    Dylan "deserves the justice that only you can provide," Moss told the jury.
  2. Bring back an Alcatraz-style island prison. It's cheaper to imprison for life than it is to sentence someone to death. In other words, we can afford to keep ALL our criminals locked up for longer if we stop killing them.

    Conversely, by insisting on the death penalty, you burden our penal system with unnecessary expense, ultimately leading to shortened sentences/early parole.

    You might argue that we should take away criminal's legal appeals, thus making it cheaper to kill them. Given that we still manage to kill a few innocent men each decade even with our legal safeguards, I don't think this is such a great idea.

    It doesn't matter what you think about this one man's life. Yes, the guy is guilty and deserves to die, etc. That doesn't justify the execution of people who (unlike this guy) might be innocent. It doesn't render the fundamental economics of the situation meaningless. It doesn't justify the judicial system shooting itself in the foot, favoring bloodlust over actually keeping more criminals off the street.
  3. But they did that already, Australia was a penal colony.
    And it cannot have been that cheap to transport people here, either, for such heinous crimes as theft of a bread loaf, or prostitution, but the previous idea of prison barges on the thames just didnt work.

    Typical government solution, of removing the issue from the public eye, without actually solving a damn thing in terms of societal problems.

    The chinese and russians got around these issues, by simply killing first and asking questions later, but i have already voiced my objection to that approach.
  4. Urban myth.

    Please name the "innocent men" who have been executed "each decade."
  5. They don't exist, you half wit, due to the very legal measures you espouse.

    Cover ups, nepotism, sheer blatant corruption-it s like asking why have their been no big protests in china, it isnt possible.

    They have designated "protest" parks, except no licences have been granted to protest, by the munificent chinese bureacracy.
    Not that thats a bad thing, overall, for the wellbeing of dissenters, or beijing residents.

    It occurs to me, Mr hap, that you are, in fact, a communist.
  6. Peaceful death by injection is too good for this thing.

    Strap it to a gurney under the Arizona sun. Feed it a saline drip, just enough to keep it hydrated. And then peel off 1/10th of its skin everyday for 10 days.

    Thats how you deter a dreadful crime. You make a dreadful punishment.
  7. I disagree.
    That will not deter shit.

    How the fuck, do you figure, a diabolical , torturous punishment, will "deter" these kind of crimes? hello?

    Deterence, when you are dealing with nutcases, great policy.

    Did it ever occur to you, that this exact policy, caused XYZ number of crimes, due to the singular inadequacy of the system?

    The kind of people, who may commit these kinds of crimes, are, by definition, fucked up to begin with, magically, torturing them will be such a marvelous benefit to society.

  8. Did I hit a nerve?

    What do you suggest we do with a convicted child rapist and murderer?

    Coddle them and send them to therapy?

    Or life in prison so taxpayers can support this piece of shit with 3 hots and a cot for eternity?

    I would like to point out that in this case this pedophile/murderer killed one and then tortured the other victim. First with sex then by making them watch the murderer kill the sibling. Fucked for life that kid is.

    Eye for an eye...tooth for a tooth!

  9. sho-tim


    Yes, it's the knuckle draggers that want there to be a system of people reaping what they have sown. We enlightened types understand that when someone rapes and kills, they are entitled to the best services that taxpayers can handle and the sympathy of every decent person.

    If there's someone to go after, it's the rich! Now that's a group of evil people.They should be punished for the harm they produce to society. Not everyone can see this, but we know it's true. Oil companies are, of course, the worst offenders. One day, when more are enlightened, we'll rise up and destroy these predators and I predict we'll be so much happier riding bicycles.
  10. You're silly and all over the place.

    It occurs to me, me Ozzy buddy, that you're a schizophrenic.
    #10     Aug 18, 2008