Before the Scientific Revolution and its greatest achievement, the scientific method, "science" was based on an appeal to revelation. In the West, it was often based on Scripture and the authority of Aristotle. Science was not dead wrong. Once again, it was faith in what were proven to be unreliable authorities that was wrong.
You want visual PROOF of the definition and then you want to still argue. This goes back to my original point that even if God's existence could be proven, a strong atheist would still not believe and would argue about the definition of God is. At a young age I challenged the existence of santa, but had no proof, one christmas eve I caught my dad putiting presents under the tree. If I was to catch someone pretending to be God, then I would question my belief in the existence of one.
I don't have the energy to play quote the bible game tonight volente. But you'll lose the bible quote game. The contradictions, examples of a unbelievably cruel god, and stories told with different sets of facts will blow any literal interpretation of the bible argument out of the water. If you want to play the game you'll have to play by yourself. It'll be good to question your blind faith, you'll probably still believe in Jesus and all that nonsense but it's good to know the bible isn't literal.
V00: >If I was to catch someone pretending to >be God, then I would question my belief >in the existence of one. LOL -- well, that's not hard to find. Any number of people over the last years have believed or at least pretended to be god. JB
But you have the energy to misquote it ? Where in the bible does it say God is always good ? My interpretation from scripture is that he could scare the hell out of you if he chooses and can use bad things at his will to either punish one or test their faith. The biggest question with evil is, "Why doesn't God prevent it from happening?" If God is really an all-good and all-powerful being, why doesn't he do something? "First of all, God does not create evil; he allows it to occur. When he originally created the world, he created all things good. He created people, however, with the freedom to choose. This includes the freedom to make right and wrong choices. Often those wrong choices bring about consequences that end up hurting ourselves or other people, sometimes innocent victims who didn't deserve it. As a college student, I was paralyzed in a diving accident. God did not push me in the water to punish me or necessarily teach me a lesson; I chose to dive off my friend's shoulders. As horrible as the consequences were, I can blame no one but myself. Of course, God could intervene and control everything about our lives -- the good and the bad -- but then we would merely be robots and not truly free. He could even force us to love him if he wanted, but then forced love isn't true love. He gives us the freedom to choose or not to choose him, the freedom to live and enjoy life, and the freedom to make right and wrong choices. Unfortunately, we are left to deal with the consequences of our own and other people's actions. Author C. S. Lewis said that 80 percent of suffering comes from the moral evil of mankind. So what about the other 20 percent? There are some things we will never truly understand here on Earth. There is good news, however. First of all, the God of love is also a God of justice. For all those who make wrong choices, hurt innocent victims, and get off scot-free, a time is coming when they will face the consequences of their actions. God is the Ultimate Judge, and in due season, God will judge everyone for all their deeds. "Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account" (Hebrews 4:13). Second, God often uses the trials of life for a greater good, often to develop our character and make us better people. And we are able to help others in similar circumstances. I have been able to reach out to disabled students (after my character was changed from complacency to compassion!). Trials also force us to see what is important in life, and often drive us to God when nothing else will. We see the importance of faith, of love, of caring, and of family and friends. Third, God has provided a way out. A time is coming when there will be no more suffering. In heaven, people will enjoy a paradise beyond imagination. God has created a place of eternal glory where there will be no more crying, pain, sickness, or death; a place where people will share his joy forever. Finally, God does care. He never promised life would be problem-free, but he promised to be with people. Jesus himself felt love, compassion, and sorrow, and was drawn like a magnet to those who were hurting. God, in his love, wants a relationship with us. "For God so loved the world, that he gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16)."
V00: >If you are standing on a mountain and someone >says there is gold below it, an atheist would argue >that there is not because they do not see it. V00, you are soooo full of BS. An "athiest" would say "show me the gold, or show me the geological surveys that show likelihood of gold or some other evidence of gold". To continue the gold metaphore, If for thousands of years you've been bringing people to this same hill and saying "there is gold below it". If you've suckered millions of people into spending their lives digging. If you've told people which worthless dirt in their hands that that worthless dirt is gold. THEN, the athiest will have no problem saying "I don't believe you and I will only believe you when you show it to me". JB
Actually, god doesn't exist, except in the mind of the credulous believer. Also, most of the executives at God Incorporated don't believe in the idea either; they're just there because it's a very lucrative business.
to continue it more, the atheist will be no where around when the claim is actually struck due to non belief and lack of an open mind. Quite an opportunity cost in my book.