First time I've ever cracked up laughing in the voting booth...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Rearden Metal, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. Well at about $5k a pop I doubt everybody could. But as I like to say ...if you have the means, I highly recommend it.

    Criminals dont own these guns...they own cheap chinese ak-47 knockoffs...

    I can hear the tootoo swishing sound in this room from here...geez
     
    #21     Nov 9, 2006
  2. Artie21

    Artie21

    What was the result of this initiative?
     
    #22     Nov 9, 2006
  3. #23     Nov 9, 2006
  4. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1566715.stm

    Switzerland has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

    This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries.

    Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives.

    Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home.

    Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.

    Few restrictions

    In addition to the government-provided arms, there are few restrictions on buying weapons. Some cantons restrict the carrying of firearms - others do not.

    The government even sells off surplus weaponry to the general public when new equipment is introduced.

    Guns and shooting are popular national pastimes. More than 200,000 Swiss attend national annual marksmanship competitions.

    But despite the wide ownership and availability of guns, violent crime is extremely rare. There are only minimal controls at public buildings and politicians rarely have police protection.

    Mark Eisenecker, a sociologist from the University of Zurich told BBC News Online that guns are "anchored" in Swiss society and that gun control is simply not an issue.

    Some pro-gun groups argue that Switzerland proves their contention that there is not necessarily a link between the availability of guns and violent crime in society.

    Low crime

    But other commentators suggest that the reality is more complicated.

    Switzerland is one of the world's richest countries, but has remained relatively isolated.

    It has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like drugs or urban deprivation.

    Despite the lack of rigid gun laws, firearms are strictly connected to a sense of collective responsibility.

    From an early age Swiss men and women associate weaponry with being called to defend their country.
     
    #24     Nov 9, 2006
  5. Gun ban' utopia creates violent crime increase
    The cure is worse than the disease

    | March 03, 2005

    In a pattern that's repeated itself in Canada and Australia, violent crime has continued to go up in Great Britain despite a complete ban on handguns, most rifles and many shotguns. The broad ban that went into effect in 1997 was trumpeted by the British government as a cure for violent crime. The cure has proven to be much worse than the disease.

    Crime rates in England have skyrocketed since the ban was enacted. According to economist John Lott of the American Enterprise Institute, the violent crime rate has risen 69 percent since 1996, with robbery rising 45 percent and murders rising 54 percent. This is even more alarming when you consider that from 1993 to 1997 armed robberies had fallen by 50 percent. Recent information released by the British Home Office shows that trend is continuing.

    The British experience is further proof that gun bans don't reduce crime and, in fact, may increase it. The gun ban creates ready victims for criminals, denying law-abiding people the opportunity to defend themselves.

    The number of guns owned by Americans is at an all-time high, fast approaching 300 million.

    Meanwhile the FBI reports that in 2003 the nation's violent crime rate declined for the 12th straight year to a 27-year low. The FBI's figures are based on crimes reported to police. By comparison, the U.S. Department of Justice reported in September that, according to its annual national crime victim survey, violent crime reached a 30-year low in 2003.

    Right-to-Carry states fared better than the rest of the country in 2003. On the whole, their total violent crime, murder and robbery rates were 6 percent, 2 percent and 23 percent lower respectively than the states and the District of Columbia where carrying a firearm for protection against criminals is prohibited or severely restricted. On average in Right-to-Carry states the total violent crime, murder, robbery and aggravated assault rates were lower by 27 percent, 32 percent, 45 percent and 20 percent respectively.

    As usual, most of the states with the lowest violent crime rates are those with the least gun control, including those in the Rocky Mountain region, and Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont in the Northeast. The District of Columbia and Maryland, which have gun bans and other severe restrictions on gun purchase and ownership, retained their regrettable distinctions as having the highest murder and robbery rates.
     
    #25     Nov 9, 2006
  6. In all sincerity, that is quite impressive. However, for some reason or other, it just doesn't seem to work out the same way in the U.S. If there was a sense of collective responsibility in the U.S., then there would be something to talk about. However, for one reason or another, the U.S. has more than its fair share of rugged individualists. So what we seem to have here is a case of apples and oranges.
     
    #26     Nov 9, 2006
  7. Are you suggesting a causal relationship between the gun ban and the crime rate? You don't think that there could be other factors at play here? Ten years ago, the gym I went to was always clean and well kept, with people replacing the weights and other equipment when they were finished using them. Presently, people seem to leave the weights all over the place despite signs to put them back. I occasionally find gum on some of the equipment (unfortunately, not my flavor). Management has not changed. Do you think it might be because of the gun ban?
     
    #27     Nov 9, 2006
  8. "Tootoo?" Although that is a word, I think the context of your post suggests that you meant to use the word "tutu." This, in turn, implies that you associate firearms with masculinity. It is no wonder, then, that you favor the .50 caliber weapon. Tell me, how much do you need to spend regularly on firearms to affirm and assert your manhood? And is this confirmation for the benefit of others or yourself?
     
    #28     Nov 9, 2006
  9. I answered that- pan down three posts from that one:


     
    #29     Nov 10, 2006
  10. I also think people's behavior has gotten worse as you mention in the gym, but violent behavior and crime has been dropping for decades.

    US Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1991-2001 all causes of death from firearms has been dropping substantially, although there has been a substantial increase in number of firearms. What I'm saying is it's not the number of firearms in society that's the problem.

    When I was in my 20's, I was also anti-gun because I believed the media, I still listen to National Public Radio, that guns were the problem. As time went by, I started thinking for myself and realized that people are responsible for their own behavior, and should be made responsible.

    After WWI, the war to end all wars, the US army was almost nonexistant. This tempted Tojo of Japan to invade the mainland of the US , but he also knew that the US citizens were armed and that is why he did not invade. This allowed the US time to build up the army.

    Where I live, the nearest police station is 22 miles away. Yet crime is extremely rare around here. Criminals know that we are armed and dangerous. They fear us. Take our guns away, and the crime will increase dramatically. Why would crime not increase in cities and countries with gun bans?
     
    #30     Nov 10, 2006