First Lawsuit against Worldco (worldcon)

zdreg · Oct 27, 2003

Quote from Pumpanddump:

Everyone is talking about lawsuits against Worldco. From a totally objective opinion, I almost went there and I'm happy that I didn't. From the lawsuit point, I can tell you that this was a LLC. People put up capital and there was no gaurentee to get it out. They should have known the risks. I saw the writting on the wall when I visited this place. There may be personal lawsuits for civil actions, but I really don't see any lawsuit goign anywhere against the LLC to recoup your money. Your money is gone and the only suit that will get you anywhere is a civil suit for actions that I wouldn't even want to imagine at that chop shop. And, then is you file an action against teh braun's, you will be asked, why aer you filing it against teh braun's and not the LLC??? That is when you will figure out that you really have no where to go with a lawsuit in this situation. Bascially, you guys are all screwed. Learn from it, move on, and never make the same mistake again.
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not true- firm capital other than trader capital contribution might cover most liabilities and leave enough to return trader contribution

Don Bright · Oct 27, 2003

Quote from I Missed Boat:

Not true. Assuming they haven't done anything illegal with the LLC money in the last several months (which many assume is already a very big assumption), they lied and misrepresented the situation right up until the shutdown. They solicited money from new and existing traders and made promises they new they couldn't keep right up through that final week. That is fraud. And even in an LLC the ownership does have fiduciary responsibilities (no, not the same responsibilities as with retail accounts, but fiduciary responsibilities nonetheless). Therefore, given what we know the ownership has done, not to mention what many suspect the ownership has done or is doing, a lawsuit against the Bruans might well go plenty far. And once the situation, deceit and all, is explained to a jury, you might be surprised with whom the jury sides (at least if you assume it would be with ownership).

By the way Mr. Bright, you were recommending someone move to Las Vegas in another thread. Would you still recommend Las Vegas once the thousands of tons of nuclear waste is shipped to Nevada?
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I am certainly not a proponent of Yucca Mountain for nuke disposal, but in a way, it's better to know where it is than to live right next to it in your local area...especially when it is not very well contained (in comparison anyway).

Now, with the horrible chain of fires in California again, it seems that nothing is safe.

Move to Nevada, help vote against Yucca Mt. (not sure that will help).

Don

esc_trader · Oct 29, 2003

Lawsuit talk has to be the most worthless pursuit on the planet.

You gotta protect yourself - getting your $ back from a prop firm - don't even depend on it in the least. Even if you have a legit legal case, it might be delayed so long you still lose out.

So, only two things to remember - keep your account at the firm's minimum requirements, and DON'T TRADE WITH MONEY YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE.

Don Bright · Oct 30, 2003

Quote from esc_trader:

Lawsuit talk has to be the most worthless pursuit on the planet.

You gotta protect yourself - getting your $ back from a prop firm - don't even depend on it in the least. Even if you have a legit legal case, it might be delayed so long you still lose out.

So, only two things to remember - keep your account at the firm's minimum requirements, and DON'T TRADE WITH MONEY YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE.
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I have to agree with you about the chances of getting any money back in a timely manner from simply filing a lawsuit. And, yes, you must always protect yourself.

The only benefit a publicized lawsuit might produce is helping others become aware of these facts. Knowing who you're doing business with and (for the millionth time)...read everything, financials especially.

Don

OxonianTrader · Oct 30, 2003

The Bruans are protected by the LLC agreement. I hope the traders who lost money there win the law suit but I don't hink prospects are good....

frmrwldctrdr · Oct 31, 2003

Nobody, including branch owners at WorldCo, knows whether or not traders will get back their capital. It depends on many things, including but not limited to, negotiating real estate lease agreements, equipment lease agreements, and selling software. So unless you have inside information about what is going on at WorldCo, can you please stop speculating about whether traders will get their capital back?
I know that traders at other prop firms find enjoyment at seeing WorldCo go under, but maybe it should serve as a wakeup call to you guys. WorldCo could have stayed afloat, albeit losing money, for the next two years, but they decided to exit the business, so as not to erode capital any further. I highly doubt that WorldCo is the only firm in the industry losing money. Why don't you guys concentrate on the health of your respective firms, instead of speculating on trader capital accounts and lawsuits at WorldCo?

OxonianTrader · Oct 31, 2003

I was only commenting on the legailty of the issue. I was trying to say that IF traders file a suit against the firm, THEN the likliehood of them getting hteir money back isn't very good as the LLC contract protects the partners. That is all I was saying. Maybe there will be no suit, but my comment was addressing the situation in which there is one. Sorry if this bothers you. I realize my comment implies that the suit will in fact be filed. sorry about that

Quote from frmrwldctrdr:

Nobody, including branch owners at WorldCo, knows whether or not traders will get back their capital. It depends on many things, including but not limited to, negotiating real estate lease agreements, equipment lease agreements, and selling software. So unless you have inside information about what is going on at WorldCo, can you please stop speculating about whether traders will get their capital back?
I know that traders at other prop firms find enjoyment at seeing WorldCo go under, but maybe it should serve as a wakeup call to you guys. WorldCo could have stayed afloat, albeit losing money, for the next two years, but they decided to exit the business, so as not to erode capital any further. I highly doubt that WorldCo is the only firm in the industry losing money. Why don't you guys concentrate on the health of your respective firms, instead of speculating on trader capital accounts and lawsuits at WorldCo?
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Ebo · Oct 31, 2003

I saw Gabe's ad on the F train this morning!

esc_trader · Oct 31, 2003

Here's how it could go..

Alot of attention and legal stuff goes on, attracts attention and the SEC or congress decides that professional daytrading firms is the problem, so they ban the LLC trading structure (or highly regulate it), and as a result we all lose out.

I'm sorry but some guy who loses money trading and then goes after the firm makes me want to puke. That's the worst kind of a**hole. Typical losers trying to blame others.

If Worldco broke their LLC agreement and/or broke the law then fine go after them, but typically a real fraudster they know their contracts word for word, if you sign it you are to blame.

OxonianTrader · Oct 31, 2003

Quote from esc_trader:

Here's how it could go..

Alot of attention and legal stuff goes on, attracts attention and the SEC or congress decides that professional daytrading firms is the problem, so they ban the LLC trading structure (or highly regulate it), and as a result we all lose out.

I'm sorry but some guy who loses money trading and then goes after the firm makes me want to puke. That's the worst kind of a**hole. Typical losers trying to blame others.

If Worldco broke their LLC agreement and/or broke the law then fine go after them, but typically a real fraudster they know their contracts word for word, if you sign it you are to blame.
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can't argue with that. One would be well advised to ALWAYS have an attorney present when one signs a contract (it may cost say $100-$500 to have an attorney look over a contract and advise you as to the fine print).