Firms that provide > 20MM Hard BP

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by lionline, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. lionline


    Hi all,

    decided to try this. We have a strategy that requires lots of hard BP (intraday/~0 overnight). The strategy is very very scaleable, and the more BP the more is made.
    Simply borrowing the cash won't make sense - it will not return a decent enough return to cover interest and risk and there are no intra-day loans that we are aware of.

    Best-case scenario is finding someone with a very large intra-day buying power, and no concentration issues - and potentially going on a profit split with them. We are open to putting up a large first loss capital deposit.

    In any event, who would know firms that have access to that kind of capital (the firm having 5MM for unlimited intraday is not enough - they will get hammered by NSCC (or their clearing firms) concentration limits)
  2. bright offers 20M
  3. lionline


    Bright is probably not an option - they make their money in commission - this is where money has to be made on a profit split.
    The commissions have to be very very low, and have ability to trade with existing relationships with the street.

    20MM is bare minimum for it to make sense for us to begin sharing in the profit. Scalability means go to 100MM + and I doublt Bright can (would want to) pull that off.

    Although, Mr. Bright - if you are reading this - please feel free to comment if I am wrong.
  4. Maverick74


    How much capital are you willing to put up?
  5. lionline


    depends on the deal and if we are comfortable where the money is held.
    Min 100k. Can we put up more? 200k sure, 300k np, the deal needs to make sense.
  6. I hate to sound like a jerk but this IA a classic "if you have to ask" threads.

    If you need to ask what a Ferrari costs you probably can't afford it.

    The intraday BP you are talking about is more than many legit prop firms as a whole use.

    I know four places I could tell you to go to but they are friends and professional acquaintances. If you want to PM me please do so. Be prepared to be asked to speak directly with your current firm for verification that you have reached their threshold and that they are not looking to expand their capital structure.
  7. LOL. 300k is a small retail account.

    If your strategy was really any good, you should be able to put up a couple million no problem.
  8. You lost me at "Simply borrowing the cash won't make sense - it will not return a decent enough return to cover interest and risk and there are no intra-day loans that we are aware of."

    If you can't make a profit with a small cash account, how exactly is this "scalable" ???
  9. lionline


    i love the armchair trading gurus on et.

    First of all. No one said our account is 300k. willing to put up 300k is a different story. Regardless, 300k is NOT a small retail account.
    ETC as a clearing firm has less net capital.
    and its totally irrelevant.

    now regarding returns. if you bothered to actually try to understand what i wrote, you would get that:

    % return on capital used is < borrowing rate.

    if you knew a little of math, you would this will apply same way with a $1.00 account and a $2.00 account (keeping the #s small so you can follow) so you can scale from $1.00 to $2.00 without a problem.

    the problem is that who would want to go in to a situation where % return < borrowing rate.

    Aha - for that you need to actually to understand a few more things, but its not the point of discussion.

    Anyway, this has been a total bust, as expected.
  10. Now you've lost me, and I'm pretty good with math, LOL. As is Evo and Clubber.

    If you're talking zero overnight, the there are no fees during the day. So, the trading firm has no way to make any money from you, nor the clearing firm.

    Putting up $100k and trading with $1mil may make sense intraday, but again, $20 milllion on even $1million is just plain bad management by any trading firm. No return for a lot of risk. And if you think even a 50/50 split is worth that kind of leverage, not i my 30 years.

    Not to be critical, but if you have something that really does work (and understand, I've heard 100's of plans over the last 30 years that somehow, some way, just happen to not work in the longer term)....then I suggest simply putting up $100k, and use 10 to one, day time, 30 to one overnight.

    If you're confident enough in your system, then why give away a percentage of profits?

    All the best,

    #10     Aug 14, 2012