I met the guy starting Innovative before they came out, the guy who originally taught the courses for technical analysis was not a profitable trader so he decided that it was time to find another line of work, so again the old saying, those who can't play, teach, coach, etc... Nice guy though, don't get me wrong, but they sold there book on Yahoo Stores previously, don't know if thats still around, but got a free copy of the stuff (Selling for a couple hundred bucks) some interesting stuff, but you could find the same thing for $29.95 at Barnes and Noble. The B/D they operate through or mostly independent offices that have switched clearing firms a number of times. I personally know of one of the prinicpals with one of these firms that they consult out to and heres the deal that innovative gets: a) They get the consulting fee b) They get a finders fee from the B/D c) They get a cut of the commissions relates back to b) (kickbacks, somewhat on the borderline) d) They do find you money, but they also get a cut of that, they have a relationship with some lending hedge fund. The accounts are held in multi-layed LLC's, and yes they do a bait and switch technique. Say that they can get you money to trade.. then they explain that first you need to prove yourself to them before they risk anything, so you put up the risk capital and if you start making money then we will help you out. They are a bit shady when it comes to that type of issue. And these group deals they are offering you aren't that great, look at the rates everyone else is getting, and you can find backing at many of the BRAND NAME firms like you get at Innovative with less money. The worst part about this thread is that, probably half the supporters for this firm are plants by the company. How do I know, well first of all, the first time Innovative was ever mention here it was something like, I found this great firm called innovative at the website blah blah blah.com, and everyone said what a crappy site it was and how it looked like a scam. Didn't say anything, just cause it was so obvious. Then they start to get the hang of it, have some guys post some quick messages so the posts don't look like newbies just advertising a site, and if you do a search on innovative you just might see this. This is not to say that they are all fakes, but some are just so obvious, and people on this thread have noticed. What I don't get is if they can afford to flood monster with these job postings, why don't they just pay like everyone else who advertises on EliteTrader? Have I gone through there program? No. But they did attempt to hire me as a trainer, but I'm not a good enough trader or trainer to take that type of money from a newbie, so I told them I'd pass. Another note, if you look real close at the firms they are recommending and the areas they are located you'll see that they had similar backgrounds in what they were named before and who they cleared through (All-Tech, US Trading.....etc...)
Received this message from the President of Innovative. Nothing to bad, and if I was the president of the company I would do the samething. But the interesting thing is that he's been registered since July, with zero posts. I wonder how many people have gotten PM from this guy about Innovative. Just a me 'speculating' again. I've put in some *notes* with some responses for all you alls enjoyment. *** Very Bitter "DaytraderDave", *Good Start* Sounds like you're quite bitter about your previous involvement with Innovative and are utilizing a good trading forum to state inaccuracies about the firm. Many of your claims are correct, but perhaps the firm has developed their business plan since you were "involved" in the operation. *So I'm right. Nothing to be bitter about said the guy I met was a nice guy, but I decided not to work for them * Additionally, if you were worth your salt in the trading industry, you would be trading yourself and not bashing other firms in your spare time. *I don't like the word bashing, I consider it saving people money * With regards to the founder of the company * Take note here, I believe that you were one of the founders of this company, but then again you might always be talking like in third person * , I know him personally, know that he's been trading successfully for many years and simply decided to add this business venture to his experience. * Sure, cause he makes so much money teaching, the office that he was originally from was so profitable thanks to his training. Umm, no. Owners actually admitted everyone there was pretty much dead weight, if you can't even train people around you to be moderately successful, why should one deserve to charge to train complete stangers and newbies? Wait I can answer that one, cause you can. * My recommendation is for you to call Innovative, get your facts straight and stop posting inaccurate, speculative remarks about something you are clearly uninformed about. * Didn't you just say at the start of this message that I was right about some things, so what am I wrong about? * *Baron, you really should be squeezing some money out of these guys for advertising. I can't do a search far back enough, but I think the first person to ever post about innovative was Rocky (I can't find it on the search cause I think you killed it pretty quickly) , I mean come on, if your going to try to flood a message board, at least mix up the screen names so we can't tell. * Sincerely, Rocky613 __________________ Dave Babich, President Innovative Trading Phone: (425) 881-2199 Fax: (425) 881-2089 www.innovativetraders.com Signing off BitterDave.
DayTraderDave, I can truly appreciate your opinion and believe that everyone on the planet is due the same. So, rather than use a valuable forum to squabble over your misinterpretation of a very sound business model, I will simply offer you this challenge. Call Innovative in its current state, I'm sure you'll find a reasonable ear to speak at. Ask any questions you may about company developments or changes since you were involved in the organization, alot changes over time, and I'm sure this applies to Innovative as well. With regards to validity of the company due to the fact that no forums have been sponsored, this is just outright absurd. Only a few forums to sponsor and many other efficient means of marketing to active traders. Sincerely, Rocky613
you guys are the carps of the industry, you bait and switch people to speak to you. I only wish I knew I was trading against you,, when I picked you off,,, the way you pick off newbies.
I have trades with Bright and Worldco and this firm, Innovative is 100% legit. I have been with Innovative for 4 months . I was with Bright for 2.5 years and Worldco for 6 months. I can now trade equities, options and futures for 1/2 the capitol needed to trade with both Bright and Worldco. The beauty of Innovative is the ability to offer retail (non licensed traders) the Buying Power of prop traders. The extra buying power comes from private capital. So both Prop and Retail can trade with the same leverage. I had a 95% payout with Worldco but they restricted half the stocks I trade. They will suck you dry with their deferred payment, short sale fines, bullet charges. You will be lucky to see 40% of your gross P/L with these guys. I had a nice LCD setup, but my bottom line is much more important. These guys are jokers and by far the biggest scam in the prop market. Why are all their trader so young....well because they like um green and can charge 1.3 to 1.4 cents and stick them with 80% payouts. Go anywhere besides Worldco... Bright is OK but accts have to be large and their systems are very old + you have to share a workstation...but they are fair and upfront and their $600 seat fee is too high. The numerous platforms Innovative B/D's offer are a great option. Realtick, Redi Plus, FSG (a newer platform), J Trader(futures).For future traders, their B/D offers low margin for emini, bonds and all other commodities. Accounts with only $3,000 can trade 6 SP e-mini contracts and 4 Naz emini contracts. Traders that do enough volume get rebates on data fees and platforms. I now trade from an office with other traders and keep all my profits. The flexibility is great. These guys allow me to trade my entire trading plan from Micro Trend to Swing to Intermediate term using equities, option and futures. Go to a prop shop to learn, once you have cut your teeth, a Firm like Innovative will offer the best tools out there + they treat you like a client ..not an employee. These guys will cut your commission and overhead....that reflects on my bottom line and that is what really counts. Just my opinion, but what ever you do avoid Worldco.
So, here is what innovative said they would get me as far as commissions for stock share trades and options. 1share-100,000 shares/month: .0135 + ECN pass throughs 100,001 to 200,000 shares/month: .013 + ECN pass throughs 200,001 to 300,000 shares/month: .0125 + ECN pass throughs 300,001 to 400,000 shares/month: .012 + ECN pass throughs 400,001 + shares/month .01 +ECN pass throughs **A minimum ticket charge of $5.00 will apply to all trading activity on this account. Option Pricing Rates: $5 flat ticket +$1.50 per contract with a minimum ticket charge of $20. I am licensed. they would give me 10 times equity for intraday buying power and 4 times equity for overnight positions. I am just not sure that this deal is worth paying $1000 for up front. opinions?
Are these two posts a contradiction? jeffgus Junior Member Registered: Jun 2002 Posts: 4 07-30-02 02:39 PM Good luck I too am moving over to e-mini. I will start with 2 contracts and trade sp and nd. I will try to post my results
I've purposely stayed away from this post, because I haven't gotten a report back about the firm. I will say that the prices you are quoting are pretty high, nearly double if you include ECN fees. And a limit of "10 times buying power" precludes you doing the Opening Only strategy, and other successful (cash intensive) strategies. As far as the firm as an "clearing house" ...I can't really comment. It might just make sense to check the handful of reputable firms available to you, rather than use a "head hunter" type of arrangement. How could any firm give you better rates when they have to pay a middleman?? I suggest doing some homework. Don
Heres what the job posting that they flood with on Monster.com, does this say anything about capital contribution? ***** Innovative Trading is currently looking for qualified individuals for our Equity and Proprietary trading accounts. Traders will have access to direct trading platforms, ECNs, and a wide variety of direct execution features enabling easy order loading. Account sizes range from $50,000 to $500,000 based on market experience and trading history. Qualified candidates will receive access to a complete line of market training via our affliated training groups. Topics include: -Technical Analysis and pattern recognition -Market scanning and research techniques -Risk, trade, and money management principles In addition, all traders will have the ability to utilize simulated Direct Access licenses for the duration of the initial training period. Account funding is provided by an established relationship with private investment groups and thus no licensing is required for account management. *Doesn't this sound like they are actually backing you, since no mention of capital contribution comes up* Multiple brokers are utilized to establish positions. These positions cator to active stock, option, and futures traders in addition to financial professionals. Candidates may trade at our main onsite trading facilities in Seattle, WA or via remote terminal. *Heres the best part of the entire job listing* Additional Information Salary: USD 40,000.00 to USD 150,000.00 per year commission *How many newbies ever really get to this point, why not but $0 to $150,000. But your making it look like its a salary position with expectations of $40,000 year. I'd like to see your track record prove that* *Almost forgot to mention, does it say anywhere in the add that you are paying a fee to be trained and match you up with a specific B/D? I think I missed that one* And DaveB, this is what this message board is for, to look at all the companies out there, and everything there offering, and have some discussion about it, your five other personalities have been supporting Innovative, so you you won't mind if one person takes the other side. On another note, those commissions that you offered to POSMENTUDE, damn, what type of markup are you putting on the poor guy? That commission rate, along with the startup fee.... you guys most be pulling in some cash. POSMENTUDE call a couple of other firms around your area and ask them what there rates are, and tell them your situation, many will actually let people with less then $25K trade, they'll just have tight risk management with you. Dave