Absolutely, I know; double-O buckshot is what you want for self-defense, but slugs can be handy for longer ranges. A slug coming out of a 12-ga at relatively close range is going to be pretty lethal. Although at very close range, it almost doesn't matter; like you said, pretty much anything coming out of a 12-ga inside of a room or apartment is going to blow off whatever it hits.
If you must have a pistol or shotgun in a close in urban environment, then review this website first. All pistol rounds will go through walls. In fact, this guy states that it went through 12 pieces of wallboard. This is why pistols are illegal in NYC. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm Most pistol rounds will go through just about anything. Cars, walls, glass, etc...
<i>"Although at very close range, it almost doesn't matter; like you said, pretty much anything coming out of a 12-ga inside of a room or apartment is going to blow off whatever it hits."</i> I'd venture to guess that I've fired more collective 12ga rounds in my life than about 90% of this entire message board combined. All size rounds, from 3.5" supermags to #12 shot (dust) included. Any of them will disable or kill any human at 30 feet or less. To prove that point long ago to someone on a bet, we shot the flat side of a common cinder block standing on its end with a 20ga round of #7 1/2 shot at ten yards. When the concrete shards stopped flying, there was nothing left but the flat base of that block. Everything else was obliterated into small particles or dust. The average human midsection is somewhat softer than the average cinder block.
So maybe a 20ga is a better selection for a first timer looking for a home defense weapon? (With proper training of course)
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. > > > > > --------------------------- > > > > > Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. > > > > > ---------------------------- > > > > > Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. > > > > > -------------------------- ---- > > > > > Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. < /div> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 person al firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: > > > > > Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent > > > > > Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent > > > > > Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! > > > > > In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns! > > > > > It will never happen here? I bet the Aussies said that too! > > > > > While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 mo nths, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. > > > > > There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. > > > > > You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. > > > > > Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. > > > > > Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late! > > > > > The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind him of this history lesson. > > > > > With Guns...........We Are 'Citizens'. > > > > > Without Them........We Are 'Subjects'. > > > > > During W.W.II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED! > > > > > Note: Admiral Yamamoto who crafted the attack on Pearl Harbor had attended Harvard U 1919-1921 & was Naval Attaché to the U. S. 1925-28. Most of our Navy was destroyed at Pearl Harbor & our Army had been deprived of funding & was ill prepared to defend the country. > > > > > It was reported that when asked why Japan did not follow up the Pearl Harbor attack with an invasion of the U. S. Mainland, his reply was that he had lived in the U. S. & knew that almost all households had guns.
Good post, Wilburbear. I read recently that gun sales are soaring in the U.S.........wonder why? Stosh
Does anyone here know where I can find an M60E4, a Colt Tommy Gun with Drum clip, a PSG-1 Sniper Rifle, an M9 Series Bazooka, an automatic crossbow, a fully automatic FN Herstal M16, an HK GMG Grenade Launcher, 3 swords carved from the dragon bone of Fafnir, and an AM General HMMWV with roof mounted turret? I think the British are coming. Thx
Boxer, I understand your situation and reason for posting. I find the following combination useful to have around the house. You should be able to obtain the first two new in box from private parties. For daily carry: Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special Home Defense pistol with Surefire X300 http://www.lesbaer.com/thundr.html A few of these stored in tactical locations around the house: Benelli M2 Super 90 Tactical http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m2TacticalPGSynthetic12Ga.jpg If a person is willing to be subject to a background investigation and to give prints, a couple of these are handy for certain situations and can be obtained from a Class III dealer: H&K MP5 SD3 http://www.hk-usa.com/le_mp5sd_general.html Semper fi.