Fingerprints not necessary for most traders.

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by ideabox, May 28, 2009.

  1. ideabox


    I am hearing that most prop firms and their llc's are now requiring their traders to register with an exchange.
    As part of the registration they also require their traders to take fingerprints.

    However as per the SEC rule 17f-2
    Fingerprinting of Securities Industry Personnel

    most traders should be exempt from the fingerprints.

    Why are they still requiring them?

    Does anyone know of a good prop shop or sub llc that is also making their traders register with an exchange BUT DOES NOT take fingerprints.

    I really hate to do something that is NOT required and especially because the compliance guy I spoke to read the exemption (was unaware of it) agreed with me that most traders were exempt. But still said that it's a policy of the firm to take the fingerprints.

    How did it suddenly become the policy of the firm?

    Is there a separate agenda here that I am not aware of or is he simply an ignoramus?

    There are a few questions in this post and I will appreaciate answers to all of them if possible.

  2. From Compliance: "This has been asked regularly by floor traders and other professional traders" Handling and processing of orders (order entry).

    If you can enter orders, you must be fingerprinted. Here is the sub-paragraph from your above posted article:

    exempt if:

    (A) Is not engaged in the sale of securities;

    (B) Does not regularly have access to the keeping, handling or processing of (1) securities, (2) monies, or (3) the original books and records relating to the securities or the monies;


  3. Cancer drug erases man's fingerprints, doctor says

    CNN) -- A Singapore man undergoing treatment for cancer was detained for four hours by U.S. immigration officials after the drug he was taking caused his fingerprints to disappear.
    Foreign visitors undergo mandatory fingerprint screening when they enter the United States.

    Foreign visitors undergo mandatory fingerprint screening when they enter the United States.

    Now, the unidentified man's oncologist is asking patients taking the commonly used drug, capecitabine, to carry a doctor's note when they travel to the United States.

    The oncologist, Eng-Huat Tan of the National Cancer Center in Singapore, described the encounter in a letter published in the current issue of the cancer journal Annals of Oncology.

    The 62-year-old cancer patient, identified as Mr. S, eventually was allowed to enter the United States and visit relatives after officials determined he did not pose a security threat.

    According to the oncologist, the patient had neck and head cancer that had spread. He responded well to chemotherapy.

    To prevent a recurrence, doctors placed him on capecitabine, marketed in the United States as Xeloda.

    One of the side effects of the drug is hand-foot syndrome. It causes the skin on the hands and feet to peel. With time, the drug can erase fingerprints.

    "It is uncertain when the onset of fingerprint loss will take place in susceptible patients who are taking capecitabine," the doctor wrote.

    His patient started on the drug in July 2005.

    "However, it is possible that there may be a growing number of such patients as Mr. S. ... These patients should prepare adequately before traveling to avert the inconvenience that Mr. S was put through."

    Foreign visitors undergo mandatory fingerprint screening when they enter the United States.
  4. ideabox


    My post specifically states that most traders are exempt.

    Not ALL traders.

    You may be correct that any licensed and/or floor traders may need to be fingerprinted.

    However anyone that is not licenced as most prop firm (or sub llc's) traders are - DO NOT NEED TO BE FINGERPRINTED.

    And again the compliance guy I spoke to has been in compliance for over 15 years. He was unaware of it at first. But after reading the rule - he said that I may be right but that he would have to talk to someone even higher than him to make sure.

    When he got back to me the next day - he again said that I am indeed right. But still insisted that I must take the fingerprint as it is a policy of the firm.

    It seems to be that they just want everyone to follow the rule and don't want to deal with the exemption that most of their traders qualify for (as they are not licensed)

    Sorry, Don - but you are wrong this time.

    Anyone else is welcome to respond.
  5. Retail traders are exempt. Brokers "can" be exempt if they do not place orders. The way it reads, and was explained to me is simply if you are a licensed trader who enters orders, the fingerprints are part of the deal.

    So, I guess we agree. The term "trader" is broad term.

    To be fair, I can't remember back when I was on the trading floors if fingerprints were required, but that was a looong time ago, LOL.

    "Cancer drug erases fingerprints?" Hmm, now that's an odd one.

  6. The majority of those prop firms requiring fingerprints will be shut down soon due to no business - if you go to their trading floors all the nyc prop firms are losing traders left and right and business is getting worse with the market going down so hard these past few sessions

    My advice would be to leave while you still can with some of your money or be left with another Tuco

    I am going to leave soon as well and maybe go back to retail trading -
  7. Don is right - you are wrong. If you disagree so strongly, start your own firm and take up your cause directly with the SEC and your SRO. Otherwise, comply with the request of the firm you are seeking to join; membership in which is at the firm's discretion - not a God given right. Best of luck to you and any firm you eventually wind up with - the relationship should be quite a pleasure for them.
  8. NazSpaz


    Not sure what firm you are talking about but for myself and guys I know at many firms this has still been a good market for pulling money out of, not near as good as last fall, but still nicely green.

    I personally have no idea how you or anyone could make more money retail, I could never come close to the results I have at a prop firm if I went retail.

    I have done my fingerprints many times for different firms over the years, never seemed like a bad thing to me, took me 10 mins and cost $10 bucks or something, seems like a fair request to get all the benefits of prop. I always assumed the purpose of it was to make sure ex-felons or other bad guys weren't trying to become exchange members under an assumed name.

    Correct me if I am wrong Don, but each trader at a prop firm is in essense becoming an exchange member and doing all the same paperwork and fingerprints as such. Never heard of anyone having an issue with it until the guy that started this thread.
  9. ideabox


    "The way it reads, and was explained to me is simply if you are a licensed trader who enters orders, the fingerprints are part of the deal. "

    If you read my previous post - i specifically state that I was talking about unlicensed traders.

    Most traders at prop firms and llc's are unlicensed thus they ARE CLEARLY EXEMPT.

    Now going back to my original post - does anyone know of a firm (or sub llc) that also requires their traders to register with an exchange BUT DOES NOT require fingerprints as they are clearly not necessary?

  10. CBOE is the only SRO that I'm aware of that accepts unlicensed traders (no Series 7 required) however all traders must be fully disclosed i.e fingerprints, U4, aml, and insider trading docs.
    #10     May 28, 2009