Fidelity holding my ask option again...

Discussion in 'Options' started by Cabin111, Oct 19, 2022.

  1. Check the exchange rules. Last time I looked into them there were SEC requirements, like nbbo.
    https://www.warriortrading.com/national-best-bid-and-offer-nbbo/

    If I place an order of sufficient size and price, I expect to see that reflected in the bid or ask within something like ?15 minutes?.

    If the order is not showing up after a long enough time to get someone in the phone, that sounds like an issue.
     
    #21     Oct 20, 2022
  2. destriero

    destriero


    Really? Tell us more!
     
    #22     Oct 20, 2022
  3. #23     Oct 20, 2022
  4. Cabin111

    Cabin111

    I believe this applies to stocks...Hence dark pools and MMs jumping me continually. I didn't see anything about options...Though I just skimmed the papers.

    Also, I didn't see where the one proposal had become law...
     
    #24     Oct 20, 2022
  5. See the second post I made in that page regarding options.
    The case with options is less clear.

    Nbbo for stocks is in the cfr so it is law
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/17/242.604

    Looks like at least nasdaq options market tries to comply with nbbo.

    https://www.nasdaq.com/docs/NOM_faqs.pdf

    NYSE options market Rule 964NY also refers to nbbo
    https://nyseamerican.wolterskluwer....B-9B65-2E7F30F5BB22}--WKUS_TAL_1839#teid-1054.

    Dig into your exchange rules, but I would expect that any market that will take your order and then not pass it along for nbbo is asking for trouble.
     
    #25     Oct 21, 2022
  6. ETJ

    ETJ

    All registered U.S. options markets are linked together on a real-time basis through a network capable of transporting orders and messages to and from each market.

    The charter of the linkage, according to The Options Clearing Corporation (OCC), is to further increase market efficiency, enhance competition, facilitate the offsetting of investor orders, and contribute to best execution of those orders. Linkage is governed by the Options Linkage Authority (OLA) under the conditions set forth by "the Plan" approved by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

    Just to clear up more bullshit here - there are no dark pools in options, but there is dark liquidity, but that relates to order size not price. All exchanges are linked so that if an order was booked on an exchange it would ship to a better market if it could fill there.
    All 16 exchanges have rules relating to customer order priority, but if your order was kept upstairs it all becomes irrelevant
    Fidelity does most of its routing via Citadel so it is eligible for dark liquidity.
    Citadel and they don't accept payment - ask yourself why.
    Fidelity "probably" kept your order upstairs. No linkage no price protection.
    You can see the book if you pay for a professional or private feed. Only size customers will pay for, but I'll bet Fidelity has them for every exchange.

    Listen to destriero as he has more option knowledge in his little finger than the rest of the forum.
     
    #26     Oct 21, 2022
  7. I think the following could be the real reason here:
    If the own Bid or Ask is sub-ticksize, as these won't be submitted to the exchange but stay at the broker...
    :D
     
    #27     Oct 21, 2022
  8. Cabin111

    Cabin111

    It was 5 cents lower at the brokerage than at the exchanges...
     
    #28     Oct 21, 2022
  9. Cabin111

    Cabin111

    You are correct...It was kept upstairs. Here is my post for a few weeks ago. Just the main issues.


    I'm really ticked at Fidelity. The worst thing is they were saying this was in MY best interest!!

    I own 500 shares of Farmland Partners (FPI)...Option expired worthless on Friday. I wanted to option the 17 1/2 for May 23 (not all or none).

    So I put my sell to open (good till canceled) in at about an hour and a half before market closed. I put it in for 65 cents. The market showed the bid/ask at 50/70 cents.

    The routing said FDLM...Here is what it says.

    What is FDLM route?


    Fidelity Dynamic Liquidity ManagementSM (FDLM) is Fidelity Capital Markets' proprietary intelligent order router, which provides access to displayed liquidity through ECNs and exchanges, as well as non-displayed liquidity through "dark pools." It combines historical and real-time market data with market microstructure ...

    I called Fidelity asking why didn't my ask not show up on any markets. They said they were holding it. If someone bid 65 cents it would be executed. They mentioned twice about possible price improvement. Yeah, I get that and have gotten price improvement about 50 times from Schwab and Fidelity over the years.

    I asked if I put it on a market will it show up? They said yes, for that market. But, since this is a lightly traded option, other people (computers) in other markets may not see it. I am thinking that there are hundreds (thousands) of computers that would see my ask, no matter which market it was on.

    So, I had to cancel my ticket (it funny, I can't call it a ticket...A ticket would indicate there was an offer at the exchange), and write another option. This time I used CBOE (not knowing which exchange I would get filled with quickest). Also since I have a new order, I go to the back of the line!!
     
    #29     Oct 21, 2022
  10. ETJ

    ETJ

    Buy a dog if you really need someone to talk to.
     
    #30     Oct 21, 2022