Feeling the market - important or not ?

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by Mystery, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. Mystery


    Let compare driving sport car to trading for a while. Pro drivers are able to feel their car with whole body and mind. Driver and his car is almost like one creature. He exactly knows how little move of steering wheel will act on moves of the car. The better diver, the better he feels his car.

    Yes, I know. Market is based on huge uncertainty. But can the pro traders “feel” the market in the same way like driver a car ? Is it possible ? Feeling how and why the market is moving…and using this “feeling” (or better word – understanding) for trader advantage to make money.

    For me it is one of the keys to success. However, mechanical systems are totally opposite to this concept.

    What do you think guys ?
  2. A driver's car is a tool. The market is not a trader's tool, it is a curving highway. How do you feel for something when you don't know where you're going?

    Maybe emotions are the trader's tools if he can conquer his and his opponents' :O
  3. Redneck


    Very good statement here, only thing I suggest is - drop the not and the maybe - Sir :)

  4. provocative!
  5. ThuNd3r


    Everything feeling (subconscious based) can be defined so one becomes consciously aware of it.

    Trading based on subconscious comes with high risk of being influenced by emotions. You aren't sure if the feeling is just pure emotion or whether there is legit logical analysis behind it. If you aren't sure if the feeling is real or fake then you will have trust/confidence issues that will negatively effect your trading/health.

    If you get strong feeling to enter/close position the key question to ask yourself is Why? If you think long and hard enough you should be always be able to come up with an answer. If you think you can't answer this question you are simply being lazy. My feeling works just because it does. That is being lazy.

    The correct approach is,
    My feeling works because if X happens & Y happens at the same time then Z happens more often then not so I should do W(place a trade).
  6. I feel sorry for you.

    The markets I trade are certain. When younger, I loved to fly gliders and acrobatics had a special appeal. It was certain for be then too.

    Trading is like meditation for me. The extreme in coherence.

    Do as you wish, but you may wish to consider working your way out of the place you are in. Check out a post(s) I made this am. I refer to a circle that begins with "Tells" from the market, accepting the tells, allowing trust to come into the space and fianlly "value" as a consequence of trust.

    What if you knew the meaning of the truth: "the market is always right."

    Always means the ongoing continual market's behavior. these continuing tells which are right, allows you to accept them and then Trust appears asy ou begin a partnership that has not existed for you so far.

    You believe "Market is based on huge uncertainty". How unfortunate for you. Chosing to be incoherent is a difficult choice. Choosing coherence would be a choice that allows you to build a partnership.

    I like the market open; it is like the initial tow for a flight until sunset when the energy of gliding ends. Pulling the lever to release the tow line is like entry on open; I get to partner with nature and fly for hours.

    I feel the markets as an experience in meditation just as gliding is done by my relationship to the horizon and the functioning of the glider with nature. It is not dials and guages; to stabilize I just let go of the controls and feel the ship come into equilibrium.

    Even if I am flipped over by a sudden air current on the leading edge of a strom squal; I know that I am at one with nature when I am glided to a calmer place away from the squal line. Having the experience of the squal is not found in markets simply because they are so big and trading involves just a few principles that have little engery empowerment.

    staying on the right side of the market is a go nogo situation there is no uncertainty when only two conditions exist. The glider and the market "tells" are ordinarily unconscious and "feelings" could be a descriptive way to express the situation.

    To go up to the top of the sailing context is done by catching a ride on a thermal. centering on it and circling up to the top where the wind shear ends the thermal or lack of oxygen limits the assent. At 1500 ft per minute it is 2G's against the seat and a 60 degree bank.

    In trading with 40 contracts it is taking a tend for the time rquired and topping out at the beginning of the next trend overlap. the altimiter just reads 40,000 more dollars for the hold segment going to the summit (long or short). the feeling is "knowing that you know and it is unconscious moment to moment. It is like the 2 G's that tell you you are centered (if not there is a G force variation that you correct by your sensitive connection to the controls (resisting the stick more tighens up the turn, for example)).

    Adding forty grand to your account is not done by looking at the altimiter. In trading it is done by the meditating coherent feeling of knowing that you know.

    leaving a thermal is fun; the thermal is surrounded by a down draft just like a fountain goes up in the middle and water falls all around the center as it goes away from the center. for wind shears it is like a fountain hitting the ceiling and the water bouncing off the ceiling in all directions.

    to stay on the right side of nature you do not dwell in the downdraft but you use it to dive quickly to pick up speed and momentum. It is a thrill and you zoom out of the downdraft by pulling out of the dive having turned the kinetic energy into stored potential energy to have yet another advantage in the sky: you can put on miles of traversing from A to B.

    It is like reversing at a segment end to pick up another segment of profit. maybe only 20 or 30 thousand more on the forty contracts but what is there you take. With a glide ratio of 50to 1 the diving costs are small as you travel laterally and regain altitude by giving up the potential energy.

    Knowing that you know in gliding is having the skills and knowledge to enjoy all that flight offers. Those that don't ake 20 minute tows; other gome back to port after sunset.

    Being in the market all the time fo9llowing the first profit segment of open is done by holding and reversing in harmony with the energy og the markets. the RTH passes pleasantly and the feeling is knowing that you know all the time and taking segments is done as a new price move begins by overlapping the old move that has given you what the market was offering.

    Luckily makets are simple and no outside power is required to fly with price movement. You can be as big as you want as long as you co not do more than five times the market capacity in intraday trading.

    You get to pick your fractal. it can have 40 to 60 moves or just 15 or as little as 4 to 7 a day. It is your choice where you fly and how many flight patterns you execute with the market as a partner.

    Since you do not trust the market, you get to be incoherent in your mental processes; you feel the usual as a consequence: anxiety, fear and anger. You may feel competitive when you trade, a lot of incoherent people do. Poorly oriented competitors lose; after most losses they aren't in the market but they are sidelined recovering from the emotional stress. this is so unhealthy compared to trading in a meditating orientation by knowing that you know. The market is a very certain experience. There are only two sides: the right side and the wrong side.

    Notice this means the market is binary. It is a go/no go orientation. If a person looks at a data sets from the market and it has six elements each of which is binary, then he always knows that he knows.

    Think about it simply. Six contextual elements. Each is binary. The elements can be black or white. You think of them in an order. And repeat the order over and over. At any time relative to the six elements and their color you always know that you know.

    There are some people who can look at a sheet of paper and with each hand correctly hit a black or white place for each finger the way the sheets says to. It is called playing the piano.

    trading is easier. you don't use your hands but rarely. All you do is read the music and use your memory to know if it is a white key or black key and does the music melody tell you when you are coming to the end of a musical phrase. songs become familiar once the music is part of long term memory all differentiated to give identities to the music.

    "Market is based on huge uncertainty" that is your lack of musical ability simply coming from not learning anything about music.

    All the markets form an orchestra. It is f*cking incredible to be in Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center every day during RTH. You can have as many seats as you wish.

    On the market keyboard, middle "C" is called sentiment. Let black be long and white be short. volume is "D". Let black be dominant and white be non dominant. Can you handle four more notes? start off with two and find out what five digit profits per trade looks like.

    In this illustration the keys C and D are involved. Both change color at the beginning and again at the end of the trade. This trade makes about 25% of the average annual medical doctor's income. While the doctor cannot read the sheet music involing two keys as a consequence of all his training, he can work for three months to have the same results.

    what does it take for a person to learn the read sheet music that involves two keys which are either white keys or black keys. When is C and D flat played in a chord? Thats as close as it get in binary vector analysis. Two keys play the P, V relationship on a piano keyboard. PA is the Johnny one note game and it is kinda borring...........
  7. Redneck



    if nothing else you crack me up...

    I really feel for the folks who’ve placed any credence in what you tout

    And I don't blame them - they're just searching for something to grasp at - and you know just enough to sound pseudo credible - to the uneducated / non-trader - of course

    btw - Whatever became of the trading challenge issued to you

  8. The last guy that Jack Hershey mentored (by the name of Neoxx ... use the Search Engine to confirm what I am about to tell you) started trading SCT live, got slaughtered, then practiced it day and night for someting like six weeks (which included buying a color printer, LOL), and got slaughtered again.

    His epic work on SCT ended-up in chit-chat, which is pretty much where all of Jack Hershey's rantings belong (perferably with a cold Heineken).

    Just LOL. :D
  9. to get back on topic... why ask this question? seems pointless to hear what other people have to say on the topic, unless they agree with you :D
  10. A trader is like a military sniper. They sit waiting all day until the opportunity comes.

    If they start shooting all over the place hoping to hit something they will find themselves in a lot of trouble.

    Their survival depends on sticking to their rules.

    Once their target is taken out they head back to base and prepare for the next mission.
    #10     Mar 22, 2009