Faith is way overrated!!!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by loza, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. Faith is a concept an ignorant mind adds to reality. Through faith, an ignorant mind builds it's own little world. In reality, there is no such thing as faith because all that is real is fully known by a mind that knows all (everything), knowing Self (all). Faith is a tool used by a mind that rejects knowing in favor of believing. And so, faith must be a tool for an ignorant state of mind in order to have experiences that only ignorance could possibly offer.

    And so, faith is like a drug...intoxicating...addicting. The faithful believe that faith has a purpose, such as discovery. But what purpose could there be in discovering a giant purple people eater? Such a thing cannot be discovered unless it is first believed in. So, what's the point?

    And so, there is no point to what we call "the world" (of time/mass). It is utterly meaningless. It's purpose, if any, is to contradict reality by a complex set of psychological operations that can be described by the one word "faith".

    The truth about faith is that it is secondary to desire. Faith is best described as a steady desire to manifest untruth. When faith is finally converted, it may be described as the steady desire to manifest truth. When truth is manifest, faith is no longer desired/necessary as a tool. Faith is forgotten as reality is reestablished within one's all-knowing awareness.

    Ignorance is a self-imposed state of mind in order to have an experience (other than reality). Faith, in its ill-begotten inception, is a tool the ignorant use to make nothing seem like something; to make the empty appear full; to make a lie the truth, and to make an illusion a "reality"...each to his own.

    Christ!
     
    #11     Feb 2, 2010
  2. loza

    loza Guest

    Faith: Belief With Wings (from my blog)

    Faith and belief are frequently used as synonyms, and indeed their definitions have overlapping elements. Both words are properly used to denote one’s convictions that hold something (or someone) to be either true or false.

    Merriam Webster’s Dictionary defines belief as “conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence”. Alternatively, its definition of faith includes “firm belief in something for which there is no proof”. This fine distinction, the presence or absence of evidence, is where the two words diverge.
    From whatever school of thought you begin, testing and the application of reason can help strengthen one’s beliefs, because they are being reinforced with the evidence of observation. But what does this speak of faith, where one can believe something for which there is no evidence? That is where science and reason face a choice. Like an eaglet in a nest before its first flight, reason can choose to believe that flight (i.e. some unknown or transcendental plane) is possible, or not. Through observation the eaglet can watch other eagles taking flight. From there it could form conclusions about its own capabilities to do so. However, until it actually braves out of the nest it would have no personal proof that what holds true for others holds true for itself. That it would consider making the attempt to fly is based on belief. Actually stepping out of the nest is based on faith.

    Taking that step is not without perils.

    By definition transcendental or spiritual experience lay beyond our material abilities to objectively measure and evaluate.

    Belief systems are formed by people. And these systems, like people, can be formed for good or bad, beneficent or selfish, malignant or gracious, or any number of myriad purposes.

    Without means of evidence to determine the validity of one belief system over another one is left vulnerable to conflict or manipulation. And belief systems, however noble or earnest in origin, can be hijacked by nefarious persons, be they terrorists, military/political/religious leaders, or simply the ignorant.

    One needs to guard against poison roots, sweetened with honeys. Avoid the company of fools who would mock what they cannot, or worse, will not try to understand. There is none so blind as he who WILL not see.

    Earnest, personal discovery is healthy. Asking, seeking, knocking and observing are all part of the process, whether you want to call it scientific method or a spiritual journey. Beliefs can take you so far, and faith perhaps even further.
     
    #12     Feb 3, 2010
  3. Reality is not a belief. We do not take it on faith, it confirms itself whenever we see physics, chemistry, biology etc. working as predicted by their various empirically obtained rules. - Sternwallow
     
    #13     Feb 3, 2010
  4. Sweet.
     
    #14     Feb 3, 2010

  5. Right ... reality simply is. (We covered the difference btw belief and faith earlier.)
    But it is viewed through our known and unknown senses.
    Belief initiates the discovery via those senses and actions in its interface with reality.
    Then belief structures are defined by assessing that reality.

    There are familial and societal realities that we are born and educated in.
    These belief structures define a framework of interface and interaction as we grow,
    defining our language and much of our internal belief structures and personal makeup.
    Belief continues to be the discovery tool to assess individual and corporate perspectives of reality.

    The more educated and sophisticated a society becomes the more sophisticated their
    belief structure becomes in discovery, building and defining belief
    and knowledge derived from those discoveries, to build and define greater belief
    and knowledge utilizing assessments to sufficiently prove as true knowledge
    in the advancement of multiple fields of study.
     
    #15     Feb 3, 2010
  6. Isn't most of belief systems inherited?

    Also unlike beliefs, the language organ is supposedly programmed into the genetic material.
     
    #16     Feb 3, 2010
  7. loza

    loza Guest

    Reality? Really? The only reality is that god/infinity IS, all else is an illusion on the grand scale. A while back, our "reality" was that earth is flat, and later earth was the center of the universe (the stars)...
    You can do better....
     
    #17     Feb 3, 2010
  8. those concepts were based on reading of religious texts. there is a message here for people like you if you are able to grasp it.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gK2EEwzjPQ&feature=player_embedded
    Neil Degrasse Tyson: "If you're scientifically literate the world looks very different to you
     
    #18     Feb 3, 2010
  9. That is a great analogy. Especially for the first eaglet ... or more so the second if the first went THUD!


    This is the interesting and personal thing about faith.

    I've heard people say "I share my faith" ... usually however it is only sharing ones beliefs.
    This is where people get into problems and conflict. I'll explain several paragraphs below.

    Belief is so integral to man that to "connect" outside of yourself one must exercise it.
    Therefore it shapes all our communication.

    We then become a composite of that which we agree with.
    From infancy, language, childhood and societal and education we build and grow our belief structure.
    Good or bad ... that which we agree with forms our belief structures.

    Conflicts arise not from believing differently or having differing
    belief structures due to ones discovery processes ... but from efforts to force ones belief structures on another.

    The worst atrocities in mankind have come from this.
    Regardless if it was religious, rebellious, conquering or prejudice ... A big list of evils justifying, murder, hatred, violence and slavery.

    I am very wary of those who deride and accuse in efforts to manipulate their belief or "anti-belief" belief.

    Belief is at the infancy of agreement and defines ones jurisdictional perspectives, their abounding or limitations.
    (e.g. - You are what and how you think in your head and at your core, and out of that overflow you communicate.
    Judge and be judged according to the measure you set fits here as well somewhat.)

    This belief, discovery and communication process develops and matures our agreements and our interface with our environ and others.


    ---> Back to sharing faith:

    Belief can be shared but can "faith" be shared?
    Yes. But not like most of what you see. People are usually sharing their belief.

    If they share their belief in any forced or manipulative fashion then it is evidence they don't have faith in what they believe.

    This is a paradox. For Example ... the athiest or priest who gets vile and nasty and manipulative in efforts to force their belief structures
    on someone else ... well they only have their belief and suppose it to be superior to the one who doesn't agree with them.

    This poses a jurisdictional breach or attack in effort to impose ones
    will and belief structures on another and demand agreement.

    Agreement is something that is central to belief and human interface and communication.

    No sale has ever been made without agreement. If it was it was theft, or conquering.

    So ... for the person who says they have faith in God ...
    I'm not going to define which one(s) at this point ...

    If they share belief ... fine ... if they breach jurisdictional agreement to do so ... there is something very wrong.
    If they say they have faith ... fine ... if they breach jurisdictional agreement to do so ... there is something very wrong.

    Personally I like to prove things out pretty thoroughly.
    If I share it with someone else ... I really ... really like to have it proved out thoroughly and beyond question.

    I have seen many people in their discovery process share very errant things with others
    only later to find they had no mastery of the topic and were very wrong.
    Very few of these follow up and humble themselves and go to those people
    to help unravel the mess they made in their lives by sharing errant conclusions.

    I keep note of those who are honorable like that. They are usually excellent people.


    If my faith were in one true God ... lets say His Name is Yahweh as an example ... lets say He's the real deal ... lets say He is also the God
    of the Israeli people and that they have a text of His deeds ...

    I'm going to take it a few steps further ... lets say their promise of a Messiah is valid ... lets say that is Jesus ... or Yeshua Ha Meshiach ...
    or Yahweh Hoshua ben Joseph, Ha Messhiach.

    Lets say this is the route oone decides they have belief and FAITH in ...

    OK ... if this is a persons position ... then how much do they believe?
    How much do they have faith? If they believe what is recorded in the Septuagint, the dead sea scrolls, the texus
    receptus and the new testament ... there are some huge issues to be dissected.

    If this Jesus is the Son of God as these texts indicate ... then He also is the "Word" of God ... according to the texts ...

    Here it is: faith comes by hearing ... and hearing by that very same "Word."

    These texts say that the only way for someone to have "Faith" is to
    receive the "Word" ... the assumption and language of the text is to receive the "Word" into the core of who you are.

    There are promises with this receiving ... one of those is that after that ... this "Word" ...
    will be inside of you and will speak and sow seeds of life to others.


    This is a ton to accept ... let alone believe ... but the basis of doing so is valid.

    The belief is not forced over free will.
    The agreement is voluntary.
    The definition of oneness of God as these texts declare brings agreement into the core of the person ...
    A new jurisdictional development of faith has then happened ...

    So realistically the conclusion is that you have to meet God and agree with Him and receive His authority by agreement with what He says in order to have faith.

    This is just the Christian religion.

    So to share ones Faith as a Christian ... ones words must be filled with this content ... or there has to be an introduction with God Himself. The texts above support these defining roles of "faith" and how faith is shared.

    The entire role of changing other people according to these Christian texts in this sharing then lies completely in
    their Gods hands for conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.
     
    #19     Feb 3, 2010
  10. Much ... especially early development in family and culture.

    Adopted children from different cultures speak the language of
    the culture they grow up in and don't have an accent.

    There are many an adopted child who have grown up speaking "Valley Girl" speak
    who's biological lineage have lived on the other side
    of the world for thousands of years.
     
    #20     Feb 3, 2010